I know this quest, but I’m almost sure this was from in game point of view? I don’t want to say propaganda, because I bet the Orcs did feel betrayed from the Forest Trolls.
This betrayal however meant the Second War and the split between the Amani / Forest Troll tribes and the Horde.
So it is simply their point of view. Or am I missing something?
I have no idea, to be honest. I don’t even know when the Witherbark would have allied with Thrall specifically in order to betray him.
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https://wow.gamepedia.com/Witherbark_tribe
I agree it says specifically Thrall. So… perhaps after they left Lordaeron? No idea when this should’ve taken place. Strange, but it is what it is.
Why can’t we keep more Forest Troll allies?^^
Edit: During BfA they refused to alaign with the Horde again.
You went from…
And when shown there’s no quest where the Ancients themselves ask you to kill their children, you then you jump to…
So you abandon the idea that the Ancients themselves ask you, but are adamant that we’re asked to kill Harpies on their behalf! But then the person asking us to kill Harpies isn’t asking us on Aviana’s behalf, but to satisfy her own hatred of Harpies.
So you then you jump to…
So you drop the idea that we’re asked by the Ancients themselves or even sent to kill Harpies on behalf of the Ancients. We’re just summoning them with Harpy feathers now…
Only you don’t kill a Harpy to get the feather. You kill Aviana’s consort, not her child, and needlessly at that. You then you jump to…
So in your mind, “Several times we have been asked to slaughter entire groups of those races for XYZ reasons, by the ancients themselves.”
means
“And it doesn’t matter who the questgiver is, because the entire questline is predicated with Avaiana calling out from beyond the veil. Upon her summoning, she wasn’t remotely concerned that we killed her Consort and several harpies to make it happen.”
Also, we don’t really talk to Aviana about how we had to kill her consort to summon her. That would explain her lack of reaction to it. She does have the following text though!
And this…
She actually says nothing about Night Elves. She is majorly pissed about what’s been done to her Harpies, tough.
Of course I am! I’m getting buthurt over here to the 3xtr3m3 because of your facts. Keep them coming. Keep proving me wrong.
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There are though, I have shown you. You are ignoring them because they do not support your butthurt position.
I have not jumped to anything, I have been consistent, I have proven my position, you have failed in every regard to refute it. And now you are being called out for your dishonesty and butthurt is over 9,000. I am not sorry.
The Highborne were acting out of, “We want that mana,” and killing Trolls was just the cost of doing business. Like you said, the reason they didn’t kill humans was because the leyline wasn’t worth it anyway over such a peaceful race. But when faced with a not so peaceful race? What’s a couple thousand years of nonstop warfare when you have all this mana?!
And the narrative and players, as the Highborned are never actually called out on it except by players who recognize the obvious analogy to the genocide of indigenous peoples.
See, when two people do something terrible in a story, and the former actually gets called out for it and we all have a moment, while the other gets a list of extenuating circumstances explaining their situation but no real judgement, that’s a tacit endorsement of it being okay for the latter.
While simultaneously downplaying it. “Unfortunate” yes.
Yes, hundreds of thousands, possibly millions dead over centuries of ongoing conflicts because the elves wanted mana, but went about it the wrong way is indeed “unfortunate”.
This is what I mean by downplaying it.
Actually, the Horde abandoned the Forest Trolls first, then allied with their enemies in Quel’Thalas. Zul’jin spells it out pretty clearly, and is about the closest the Amani really come to being portrayed sympathetically.
Doesn’t keep us from going in and killing them all, without really being asked to feel all too bad about it, but still.
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Your several quests that show us being asked to slaughter entire groups of those races for XYZ reasons, by the ancients themselves, was actually one quest in which we’re asked by a Harpy hating Night Elf to kill Harpies- unrelated to the Ancients. And a quest where a Druid asks ut to kill a falconbird to summon an Ancient.
I’ve taken the courtesy of linking the quests in my replies, because you’re afraid to, as it would allow people to read them for themselves. All anyone has to do is click the arrows in the quotes to see what’s been going on.
And in all the time you’ve been calling me butthurt and claiming the quests you know are there are indeed there, you could have just posted the link to them. That’d really show me a thing or two!
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It’s more complicated then that.
During the Second War, the Amani (under Zul’jin) allied with the Orcs to take Silvermoon. But the Orcs couldn’t manage to do it, even with the Amani’s help. But somehow, the Amani took that as a betrayal… because of their combined effort failed.
Then the Witherbark, which was a Tribe within the Amani, later allied with Thrall, but then betrayed him.
Later, when the New Horde Allied with the Blood Elves, the Zul’jin took that as a Betrayal (even though the New Horde was never allied with the Amani, especially not after getting stabbed in the back by the Witherbark.)
Multiple
A druid of the talon and follower of Aviana at the Shrine of Avaiana.
Being dishonest again
We know that much. But we’ve never seen this aside from this quest. So the question is everything around it. It sounds off. It had to happen before Classic.
Linking the quests would help your conversation.
Well, yes. I assumed it was during the RTS (never got that far into the campaign)
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I see. It didn’t happen during WC3 at least. Thrall hated the first Forest Trolls he meet. So… yeah that’s all there’s to it I guess.
He said: “Forest Trolls I can’t believe they were once part of the Horde.” They are hostile.
I already have quoted it word for word. And she herself linked it.
My bad then.
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Only in a single quest you mentioned are you asked to slaughter Harpies, a task which you claimed happened several times in Hyjal at the orders of Aviana herself! You only had one quest for it. This one. And in that quest, neither Aviana, nor any other ancient, asks you slay Harpies.
Unless you think the quest where you don’t kill harpies, but instead kill Blaithe also counts as a quest to kill harpies in Hyjal. A quest that also doesn’t come from Aviana herself. Do honestly you think it does?
Or am I forgetting others? Feel free to point them out so I can be further proven wrong.
You also claimed the request came from the Ancients themselves.
Only to continuously back away from that until now, the Ancient’s themselves, is actually a Night Elf Druid with racial supremacist views and a very clear bias against Harpies not shared by her superior, a Tauren Druid of the Talon.
It’s all such an obvious case of Aviana loving Night Elves so much more than Harpies.
But sure. I’m the one being dishonest.
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Multiple. Read again.
Extensions of the Ancients’ authority as their followers and disciples, who are acting in the interests of the Ancients. Yes, that is from the mouth of the Ancients themselves.
Hang on, being possessed, as in losing any control over yourself, and being enthralled, AKA fascinated, aren’t anywhere near the same. Kel’thuzad was fascinated with necromancy, Illidan was obsessed with power, and Arthas was obsessed with revenge. Medivh literally did not have control of himself, whereas Azshara did.
Okay, I’ll give you them.
Druids of the Flame then. They summoned Ragnaros onto Mount Hyjal to try and incinerate the world.
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She was using the word by it’s literal meaning, to enthrall: to enslave or hold power over.
Not saying it’s accurate but lets be honest here. The Word has many different usages.
As far as I’m aware she wasn’t enthralled, as in enslaved, by Sargeras though.
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More like enslaved to her own greed and lust for power.