Why do night elves shun their troll heritage?

https://gamepedia.cursecdn.com/wowpedia/thumb/c/c2/Chronicle_Troll_Wars_Map.jpg/300px-Chronicle_Troll_Wars_Map.jpg?version=7a7c8663ac423757cc67a35690aa712d

Amani empire, way later on. There is no way around this one.
Even on your map most of it is Amani.

This shows that indeed Arathor was Human land.

Why do night elves shun their troll heritage?

Reading this thread, and especially some Elf posters’ replies on the Amani topic, the obvious answer to me seems to be a fatal combination of self-righteousness, denial and superiority complexes.

Best example for this mindset is the argument: “The Amani attacked first, so the High Elves were in the right.”

Like, no they weren’t. The literal reason why the Amani attacked the High Elves was a) because they were trespassing on their lands and b) because they knew from experience what kind of people they were dealing with- namely aggressive conquerors who had stolen their lands before and would do so again if given the chance ( which is exactly what happened,too ).

Sure, shooting someone who accidently strays on your front lawn is not the way to behave, but here’s the thing : The Highborne didn’t trespass into Amani territory by accident. They sent scouts. They knew the Amani were there but they didn’t care and decided to take their chances because the temptation of the leylines was stronger.

So it’s less “shooting someone who accidently strays on your front lawn” but instead “shooting someone who has broken into your house, killed your family members and robbed your things before, and now intends to do the exact same thing at your new home”.

And no, it wasn’t the only option those poor, desperate High Elves had. They could have settled elsewhere, as others mentioned before but they wanted this land because of its leylines. That’s why they “stubbornly pressed forward” as Chronicles describes it and not turned around and left the moment they became aware that they weren’t welcome.
They didn’t continue further north because they hoped to find unoccupied land eventually. They pushed further north because that was always their destination, and despite being attacked the entire way.

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Not at first no.

https://i.imgur.com/wKxPbGY.jpg

Are you serious?

I am serious. Overlapping the Night Elf expansion on your own map:

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Most of Tirisfall and are Arathi still Amani territory after the Nigh Elf conquest and you say humas were there first?

Even on your map two tings are key:

  1. Yours is later.
  2. Most of your claimed territory is still in Amani hands.

Yeah I know, but it is still a consort of Aviana. So I figured it was relevant.

And it doesn’t matter who the questgiver is, because the entire questline is predicated with Avaiana calling out from beyond the veil. Upon her summoning, she wasn’t remotely concerned that we killed her Consort and several harpies to make it happen.

So yes, you are dishonest.

I’m pointing out that the maps do not show the Human holdings described by the text of Chronicle.

No you’re pointing out it was Amani Empire.

No, because Chronicle also says that the Vrkul arrived in Tirisfal before the Amani did, but this was not reflected in either the Troll Empires map or the Night Elf Empire map.

  1. Quote
  2. It still was always marked as Amani territory (also in texts from the Amani) and no mention of war. So my point stands.

Page 63:

    Despite facing hopeless odds, the keeper of justice had nearly killed both C’Thraxxi. The survivor, Kith’ix, had only narrowly fled to the west. It would not be seen again for many thousands of years.

    In honor of her fallen comrade, Ironaya named the glade surrounding the crater “Tyr’s Fall,” which in the vrykul tongue translated to “Tirisfal.” She and her follower buried Tyr and his foe where they lay. They placed Tyr’s massive silver hand atop his final resting place as a memorial to his valiant sacrifice.

    Although all of the refugees would carry on the story of Tyr’s noble sacrifice, the vrykul in particular felt compelled to do something more. They were so moved by the keeper’s deeds that they decided to settle at the battle site and stand vigil over Tyr’s grave until the end of their days.

So the Vrkul that would turn into humans had settled there thousands of years before the Trolls even woke Kith’ix back up, let alone hunted him down, as covered by Pages 72-73:

    Meanwhile, the Amani had set out to destroy Kith’ix. They tracked the C’Thrax’s trail far to the northeastern woodlands, cutting through an unending mass of aqiri guardians. In a final savage battle, the entire tribe flung itself in a suicidal attack against Kith’ix and its remaining insectoid minions. Only a tiny fraction of the troll army survived. Even so, the C’Thrax succumbed to is tireless hunters.

    Though the cost was high, the fearsome reputation of the Amani became legend among the other troll tribes. Atop the site where they had killed Kith’ix, the trolls established a new settlement. It would one day grow into a sprawling temple city known as Zul’Aman.

Time frame.

The good thing is, you’re not even talking about Arathi any longer and those died out later on.
They still had no war after wards.

“The survivor, Kith’ix, had only narrowly fled to the west. It would not be seen again for many thousands of years.”

Kith’ix was the C’Thrax that the Zandalari awoke that prompted the Amani to chase it east.

[quote]

And why does the Amani attacking the Highborne obligate them to commit to settling the land, expanding said settlements, prompting more attacks against which they “have no choice but to keep killing to deal with”?

That’s not the only example of Colonist logic going on here. The idea that when they got to Amani lands and were attacked, that it’s only reasonable that they press on and unreasonable for the Amani to oppose them.

The only reason why most Troll fans get up in arms about is because the Trolls are demonized in the narrative when they do this kind of stuff to other races in a way that other sapient races aren’t when they do it to Trolls.

You read the rest of the thread, right? You saw the reasons people gave (IC and OOC) for disliking the whole Troll/Elf relationship, right?

I’m being be accused of projecting and leading things back to IRL when the arguments being used are basically 1800’s European Colonial talking points with the numbers filed off?

High Elves have a couple settlements in Lordaeron. Danil Lodge, the area around the Runestone of Caer Darrow prior to its destruction in the Second War, and yes, Dalaran, as it was directly across the way from Lake Lordamere. Not that far off at all. Definitely closer than where Silvermoon City sits now!

I’m not just talking about Stranglethorn, but also how Darkwood came under Human control.

And yeah, the Horde’s all in there too. They don’t get played as bloodthirsty brutes for killing Trolls the same way they do for killing “prettier” races. Even NPCs.

Like Arathi. You say that the situation of the humans is essentially the same as that of the Trolls, but it’s not at all presented in anything approaching the same way. The Trolls are turned on by their former allies and now fighting on two fronts.

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That’s the thing. We have seen genocide live. We’ve participated in it. It’s just been an ongoing thing treated as matter of fact (or even a meme) when it’s committed against Trolls and several other races coded as “primitive/savage/indigenous” societies. Or it gets downplayed. Or explained as justified. Or the people getting genocided brought it upon themselves. No matter the case, it’s never played as a tragedy or for pathos. It’s just how the world works. It’s “unfortunate”.

What you mean is that we haven’t seen it used against one of the other races and played for drama since the Night Elves most recently. And before that, the High Elves with the Scourge. And before that, the Culling of Stratholme. I’m sure I’m missing some more, but you can see the pattern here.

That’s what people mean when the bring this kind of stuff up.

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I’ve looked it up. I don’t see another time frame either but you are right on this one. Still doesn’t make you right about Arathi which came long after. It was Trollland.

It does not obligate them to. The Highborne were acting out initially defensively, but then that changed from defensive to making war. The Highborne were not obligated to do this. They just did it because they could and didn’t care what the Amani thought after defeating them.

Once again, the only person saying this was reasonable of the Highborne is you.

And there were plenty of people who countered with dismay and objection towards these people. I liked many of their posts.

Danil Lordge is pretty far away from where the C’Thrax was buried. Seemingly Dalaran was also far enough away. If Dalaran was on a good leyline, it’s rather just unfortunate that the Highborne traveled east instead of south after leaving Tirisfal.

The Horde notably dislikes the Amani because the Amani turned on them first.

And the passage about Thoradin and the founding of Strom called the area of Arathor within the border of the Human lands. The map you linked - which for whatever likely clerical error shows Tirisfal as Amani land - also showed Arathor as Human land.

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Not quite there were a view people arguing for this.

The Horde turned on the Amani. The pact was to take Silvermoon.

Again very long after the Amani Empire was long past their largest extend. So yes I stand correct on this.

In fact the Horde battled against the Gurubashi during the Second War.
Seems like a strange thing to me making this lore. This should’ve said the Amani right from the start: “Nope.”
But because this was a later addition it didn’t matter, or influence the story at all.

Sorry, I was confused, I was thinking about the Witherbark:

    The Witherbark trolls were once allies to the Horde, but they betrayed Thrall… and that must be punished!