https://gamepedia.cursecdn.com/wowpedia/thumb/c/c2/Chronicle_Troll_Wars_Map.jpg/300px-Chronicle_Troll_Wars_Map.jpg?version=7a7c8663ac423757cc67a35690aa712d
Amani empire, way later on. There is no way around this one.
Even on your map most of it is Amani.
This shows that indeed Arathor was Human land.
Why do night elves shun their troll heritage?
Reading this thread, and especially some Elf postersâ replies on the Amani topic, the obvious answer to me seems to be a fatal combination of self-righteousness, denial and superiority complexes.
Best example for this mindset is the argument: âThe Amani attacked first, so the High Elves were in the right.â
Like, no they werenât. The literal reason why the Amani attacked the High Elves was a) because they were trespassing on their lands and b) because they knew from experience what kind of people they were dealing with- namely aggressive conquerors who had stolen their lands before and would do so again if given the chance ( which is exactly what happened,too ).
Sure, shooting someone who accidently strays on your front lawn is not the way to behave, but hereâs the thing : The Highborne didnât trespass into Amani territory by accident. They sent scouts. They knew the Amani were there but they didnât care and decided to take their chances because the temptation of the leylines was stronger.
So itâs less âshooting someone who accidently strays on your front lawnâ but instead âshooting someone who has broken into your house, killed your family members and robbed your things before, and now intends to do the exact same thing at your new homeâ.
And no, it wasnât the only option those poor, desperate High Elves had. They could have settled elsewhere, as others mentioned before but they wanted this land because of its leylines. Thatâs why they âstubbornly pressed forwardâ as Chronicles describes it and not turned around and left the moment they became aware that they werenât welcome.
They didnât continue further north because they hoped to find unoccupied land eventually. They pushed further north because that was always their destination, and despite being attacked the entire way.
Not at first no.
https://i.imgur.com/wKxPbGY.jpg
Are you serious?
I am serious. Overlapping the Night Elf expansion on your own map:
Most of Tirisfall and are Arathi still Amani territory after the Nigh Elf conquest and you say humas were there first?
Even on your map two tings are key:
Yeah I know, but it is still a consort of Aviana. So I figured it was relevant.
And it doesnât matter who the questgiver is, because the entire questline is predicated with Avaiana calling out from beyond the veil. Upon her summoning, she wasnât remotely concerned that we killed her Consort and several harpies to make it happen.
So yes, you are dishonest.
Iâm pointing out that the maps do not show the Human holdings described by the text of Chronicle.
No youâre pointing out it was Amani Empire.
No, because Chronicle also says that the Vrkul arrived in Tirisfal before the Amani did, but this was not reflected in either the Troll Empires map or the Night Elf Empire map.
Page 63:
In honor of her fallen comrade, Ironaya named the glade surrounding the crater âTyrâs Fall,â which in the vrykul tongue translated to âTirisfal.â She and her follower buried Tyr and his foe where they lay. They placed Tyrâs massive silver hand atop his final resting place as a memorial to his valiant sacrifice.
Although all of the refugees would carry on the story of Tyrâs noble sacrifice, the vrykul in particular felt compelled to do something more. They were so moved by the keeperâs deeds that they decided to settle at the battle site and stand vigil over Tyrâs grave until the end of their days.
So the Vrkul that would turn into humans had settled there thousands of years before the Trolls even woke Kithâix back up, let alone hunted him down, as covered by Pages 72-73:
Though the cost was high, the fearsome reputation of the Amani became legend among the other troll tribes. Atop the site where they had killed Kithâix, the trolls established a new settlement. It would one day grow into a sprawling temple city known as ZulâAman.
Time frame.
The good thing is, youâre not even talking about Arathi any longer and those died out later on.
They still had no war after wards.
âThe survivor, Kithâix, had only narrowly fled to the west. It would not be seen again for many thousands of years.â
Kithâix was the CâThrax that the Zandalari awoke that prompted the Amani to chase it east.
[quote]
And why does the Amani attacking the Highborne obligate them to commit to settling the land, expanding said settlements, prompting more attacks against which they âhave no choice but to keep killing to deal withâ?
Thatâs not the only example of Colonist logic going on here. The idea that when they got to Amani lands and were attacked, that itâs only reasonable that they press on and unreasonable for the Amani to oppose them.
The only reason why most Troll fans get up in arms about is because the Trolls are demonized in the narrative when they do this kind of stuff to other races in a way that other sapient races arenât when they do it to Trolls.
You read the rest of the thread, right? You saw the reasons people gave (IC and OOC) for disliking the whole Troll/Elf relationship, right?
Iâm being be accused of projecting and leading things back to IRL when the arguments being used are basically 1800âs European Colonial talking points with the numbers filed off?
High Elves have a couple settlements in Lordaeron. Danil Lodge, the area around the Runestone of Caer Darrow prior to its destruction in the Second War, and yes, Dalaran, as it was directly across the way from Lake Lordamere. Not that far off at all. Definitely closer than where Silvermoon City sits now!
Iâm not just talking about Stranglethorn, but also how Darkwood came under Human control.
And yeah, the Hordeâs all in there too. They donât get played as bloodthirsty brutes for killing Trolls the same way they do for killing âprettierâ races. Even NPCs.
Like Arathi. You say that the situation of the humans is essentially the same as that of the Trolls, but itâs not at all presented in anything approaching the same way. The Trolls are turned on by their former allies and now fighting on two fronts.
Thatâs the thing. We have seen genocide live. Weâve participated in it. Itâs just been an ongoing thing treated as matter of fact (or even a meme) when itâs committed against Trolls and several other races coded as âprimitive/savage/indigenousâ societies. Or it gets downplayed. Or explained as justified. Or the people getting genocided brought it upon themselves. No matter the case, itâs never played as a tragedy or for pathos. Itâs just how the world works. Itâs âunfortunateâ.
What you mean is that we havenât seen it used against one of the other races and played for drama since the Night Elves most recently. And before that, the High Elves with the Scourge. And before that, the Culling of Stratholme. Iâm sure Iâm missing some more, but you can see the pattern here.
Thatâs what people mean when the bring this kind of stuff up.
Iâve looked it up. I donât see another time frame either but you are right on this one. Still doesnât make you right about Arathi which came long after. It was Trollland.
It does not obligate them to. The Highborne were acting out initially defensively, but then that changed from defensive to making war. The Highborne were not obligated to do this. They just did it because they could and didnât care what the Amani thought after defeating them.
Once again, the only person saying this was reasonable of the Highborne is you.
And there were plenty of people who countered with dismay and objection towards these people. I liked many of their posts.
Danil Lordge is pretty far away from where the CâThrax was buried. Seemingly Dalaran was also far enough away. If Dalaran was on a good leyline, itâs rather just unfortunate that the Highborne traveled east instead of south after leaving Tirisfal.
The Horde notably dislikes the Amani because the Amani turned on them first.
And the passage about Thoradin and the founding of Strom called the area of Arathor within the border of the Human lands. The map you linked - which for whatever likely clerical error shows Tirisfal as Amani land - also showed Arathor as Human land.
Not quite there were a view people arguing for this.
The Horde turned on the Amani. The pact was to take Silvermoon.
Again very long after the Amani Empire was long past their largest extend. So yes I stand correct on this.
In fact the Horde battled against the Gurubashi during the Second War.
Seems like a strange thing to me making this lore. This shouldâve said the Amani right from the start: âNope.â
But because this was a later addition it didnât matter, or influence the story at all.
Sorry, I was confused, I was thinking about the Witherbark:
