Why do mythic+ players take the (debatably)most commitment with the slowest gear prog?

It depends, right? The first time, maybe. But the 5th time? The tenth? You carry slow down. And you get 4/20 pieces of loot per boss on top of the vault, which every week has a greater chance of getting to you with a shared pool.

Mythic plus is a different sort of endgame. The first time most people were doing the dungeons, they’re overheated. As they progress, they have to make micro adjustments to positioning and strategy while accounting for affixes. Doing the dungeon becomes a given at a certain item level, and the challenge becomes positioning on the leaderboard.

Mythic raiding is what people who want to remove the timer are asking m+ to become. Binary pass/fail. When raiders compare m+ rewards to raid rewards they do so through that lends. Pass/fail. Get loot or don’t. But that’s not what m+ is about.

Only in ilvl. Not in power.

No dom sockets. No super imba procs. No Old Warrior’s Soul.

A lot of heroic SoD loot is better than M+ gear. Even beating out 252 piece which are the absolute peak of power from M+ (a total slot machine anyways).

People pretend that because Phial, BSS, and Poxstorm exist, somehow that makes M+ on an equal level with the raid and it just isn’t true at all. It’s a joke. You might use some rings and a belt and a cape from M+, but most of your high-stat pieces like chest, helm, and shoulders are coming from the raid. The pants are the only exception where M+ pants are worth investing in… but only if your legendary isn’t already in your pants like it is for a number of legendaries (cough cough UFR, cough cough Reprisal).

The first 4 bosses covers literally every single dom socket, there are a number of weapons, a number of trinkets including Titanic Ocular Gland (which is sim-bait for prog TBH but BIS for parsing for many specs). The first three bosses are completely free and you can kill 3/10 M with any AOTC Sylvanas PUG, literally only Ner’zhul is “Hard” and I wouldn’t even say he’s actually hard you just have to actually understand the fight (… don’t get me started on that though).

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Overall this is a true statement. Although, some players were pushing higher than +15s really fast in 9.1 so it did help for awhile

In the context of this conversation, yes it is.

But

is also true.

For a week. I leveled this toon a month ago, it took me about 40-45 runs to get to the point where the drops no longer gave me upgrades. So 1.5 weeks in, I’m now metered to the weekly vault.

Which highlights the problem. M+ can get to 236 faster, but then raiders get to 252 faster.

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Heroic DoM sockets vs 252 is negligible. Ilvl gains is constant, but socket set bonus doesn’t work outside of raid and the gems themselves have situational uptime. Only 3 gems provide a dps gain.

This isn’t true at all. Every raider and their mother spams M+ because it’s the fastest way and often required, to get into raids. M+ has infinite gear grinding and more than half of my gear is from Mythic+.

I also see a lot of complaining about the item level of M+ gear, but a 15 giving 252 ilvl is a joke. A 15 key is on par with a low end heroic boss. I could see 20+ keys rewarding 252 gear, but it’s actually crazy that you can get full 236ilvl from mythic+ in a single day if you wanted to. And then upgrade that gear to 246, which is at end raid boss heroic level.

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Per wowprogress right now 4626 guilds are 3/10.

Let’s say each guild is 30 people to be super conservative. That’s 139k characters.

Per raider.io over 900k unique characters have timed a +15 or higher.

Most servers don’t even have a single guild at 3/10 let alone pugging it.

And it’s not cross realm.

And had raid ID lockouts.

They aren’t even remotely comparable to mythic+ ease.

And 4/10 is a massive step down to 3122 guilds.

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Even with pretty good luck, it’s about 45 hours of dungeons. Not doable in a day. I’m a week or two maybe.

And you can only upgrade a few of those pieces. For one spec.

A) Not true. Two Unholy gems increase DPS, Zed and Dyz. Zed is not insignificant in AE situations (AKA M+).

B) Kyr is a massive survivability increase. Massive. Like actually insanely big. 10-12% EHP increase plus 250 HPS. All top M+ players run Kyr bar none.

Okay, but they’re substantially better than M+ gear. And they are attainable. They’re definitely attainable. These are not 259 weapons. This is not “233 Dreadfire” type situation. This is tangible power that probably, at least 10% of the player-base has access to?

The lowest possible threshold of being a “Mythic Raider”, and you’re getting access to the majority of the Mythic Raiding exclusive power. Again, this whole 9/10M 10/10 M stuff is not coming into play. You just pass the lowest possible bar and you’re getting a substantial step up from M+ers. And even further down from that, even Heroic raids are getting stuff better than M+ers. It’s a joke. Don’t tell me that M+ gear is too good, lol. Actually deranged.

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Top M+ runners are also high in Mythic raids who have access to 252 sockets. Obviously 252 sockets are better than 252 non-sockets. Most players will have Heroic raid sockets versus 252 vault from M+. That is the comparison for the majority of players.

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More people are timing +15 keys than killing heroic painsmith.

I don’t know what to tell you.

Yea, 15s are so easy. KSM 1st week available, and timing 19s in week 1 of S2 with 226 ilvl. LOL. Keys are a joke. I guess 20s could reward 252 ilvl, but 15s aren’t remotely challenging.

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Shoulders off Heroic Terragrue are better than the best possible M+ shoulders.

Say “Wow, M+ loot is kind of shafted”.

Even if that was true, I don’t see a problem with this. Heroic tara is on par with a 15 key and a 15 key grants a 252 vault, while tara only gives you a 239. Pretty 1 sided in favor of dungeons.

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I think Normal Painsmith is harder than M+15 at this point, M+ is a joke.

Nobody actually genuinely take M+ seriously, deep within their heart they know they only do M+ because it’s the path of least resistance.

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239 Dom > 252. Not seeing what’s one-sided at all except that loot progression overwhelming favors raiding.

Like, realistically, nobody cares about “path of least resistance” or “easy 252”. People care about progressing towards BIS, not pre-raid BIS.

There are 10 non-dom slots to gear as well…

The highest stat budget armor pieces are dom sockets. Except weapon, which SoD has special weapon procs anyways so stuff like a 239 veinripper can beat a 252 one-hander, or jaythis beating a 252 2-hander.

Oh, yippie, M+ can give you some rings and a cape. And maybe a couple trinkets. Obviously that means M+ itemization is completely fine.

how else to get easy 252s in the vault?

feels like m+ is actually the way to go

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