Why do Covenant Abilities/Restrictions remove player agency?

Is it though?
If the game was remotely balanced then players wouldn’t have to all look in the same direction.
We’ve been asking for DH nerfs for the past two years and only now they’re (maybe) doing it. Meanwhile a bunch of specs have been dead weight through the same amount of time: Feral, Subtlety, Survival, etc.
How hard can it be to apply a 1-2% nerf to DH damage and give the same amount of buff to those that have been lagging behind?

1 Like

The devs are the ones who want this. They apparently like the idea of a game based on difficult to reverse or even irrevocable choices and punishment. Why else would they have put so much effort into changing the very basis of the game?

Keep it up, Ralph. You don’t like wow and never have, because it’s not a game that fits into whatever imaginary construct you think it ought to. You want the entire game to change from what it always has been to your splinter idea of the perfect MMORPG.

Blizzard created simming. They created min maxing. They gave the players the tools to excel and rewards for being their best. It’s not the players who made those changes to the game. It was devs.

2 Likes

I hope they keep Covenants as is.
Choice matters.

4 Likes

Yet no matter how hard you sim or how hard you copy the meta build your skill will remain where it is.

Much rather have skilled players that know their class rather than someome who simply plays and copies the FotM class and build yet still underperforms3

Might want to check by ilvl, overall logs are always bad if you are undergeared, plus i only started playing hunter 2 weeks ago.

Not saying im ultra godlike skill, but I do plan on getting better parses BY ILVL as time goes on

Just seems like such an odd approach to take.

RP/Casual players like myself don’t even like it, specifically because of it’s needless punishing nature… and then you have the sadistic players that are in full support.

Seems like a design that will push more players away than it would attract them.

3 Likes

Yours maybe, because clearly you don’t care about your progress, and would feel better if other players who do care were prevented from playing better than you. You want their choice removed.

So git gud yourself?

1 Like

You arent going to convince a mediocre player like Rälph (or any who thinks alike) who has no idea about all the strategy and adjustements that go behind the scenes in every mythic kill/mythic keystone push that matters, dont waste time.

2 Likes

I want the Convenants as-is because it removes choices and magnifies the punishment.

You choose the Covenant.
That’s a choice.

1 Like

Yup - but it’s only one choice.

Having a system where players could change their abilities would create so many more choices and player agency.

Removing all of that is what becomes punishing - and that’s what I’m in favor of.

We already have talents to change around for situations.
And trinkets.
And gear sets.

2 Likes

You’re going to break your arm with that reach

2 Likes

Sure - but the point is that the current covenant system removes so many potential choices and player agency that could be in the game.

It provides one choice and then the toxicity of it gets compounded across an entire characters specs and the various types of content they engage in, except for likely just 1 of them.

It’s glorious and brilliant.

It’s not a choice if you can just switch between them at will.
I “choose” to see Harry Potter, and then I “choose” to see Artemis Fowl.
You’re not “choosing.” You’re taking both.

2 Likes

True blizzard has a part of play, when BfA launched and Spriests were in an a pretty bad state, blizzard should have acted faster i completely agree the issue is that sometimes community perception would require a class like Spriest to become literally overpowered before stopping the culture of mass decline spriests

Of course though that also goes both ways, people who enjoy and were good at spriests kept playing them and did well, yet they were insta decline for many people.

The thing is for heroic and m+ spriests could still do well IF they were good at it, give a skilled player a bad class and he will still perform better than a bad player playing meta.

The balance isnt perfect but it isnt the trash that classic was where some classes simply couldnt be good at X role even if they were played by good players.

Now all classes allow for a decent performance

1 Like

It’s not completely unreasonable though.

In the context of Classic, why would you ever invite an Alliance Priest that isn’t a Dwarf? You’re just going to assume they’re bad at the game for not going the objectively best race.

In the context of the current game, why would I ever invite another Warlock stacking Versatility or, who clearly only picks their Azerite based on it’s ilvl, even if the traits are complete and utter garbage? You’re just going to assume that they don’t have any sort of game knowledge about how their class actually works.

And why would Covenants be any different? If one Covenant is objectively the worst, and the response from the person who picked that Covenant is “I picked them cause I think they’re the prettiest”, I’m not going to invite that player.

Look man, I like the current system as-is; but objectively, it removes choice.

This is why players are upset, because they asked for choices to make and they were given a system that removed so much potential for choices.

Which is where my enjoyment of the system comes into play.

If you like the system for the same reasons great - but claiming that having the ability to make choices for various ways of playing a game that has many kinds of ways to play it across a ridiculous number of combinations of players/specs/etc. is somehow not actually having a choice is ignorant.

I like this thread because the word punishment is used so much.
:+1:

The WoW player base needs punishment, LOTS of punishment. We know they’ve been very naughty.

2 Likes

I just like the system because that’s what it does to the player base.

It’s such a great way to hit so many players at the same time.

Covenants without abilities is a great source of player agency, choosing our story and cosmetics for the expansion.

Covenants with abilities means you’re not getting into groups or raid nights without the covenant everyone else is using.

Blizzard is too insecure to make purely cosmetic choices. They don’t think players will engage in their game unless they’re given power from it. Because they don’t believe the content alone is enough to spark engagement.