Why do blue eyes matter so much? Seriously though why the rage?

[Anthaniel-moon-guard (Anthaniel)]

Acquiring a subscription does not, and never has meant that you become a story consultant, or get a say in what happens. You can make recommendations or suggestions, but they have a absolute right to veto and disregard it.

It is an interesting paradigm that when a work of art or industry is shared, it becomes more of a shared thing. I understand that is a nebulous concept for you.

Smart people have studied it, but you might have seen it in the “who shot first” debates.

I can understand that you want more of a black and white situation, but humans and those things and situations they create are messier than that.

In the end it is a product they are trying to get us - the consumers - to pay for. And that gives us the ability to pass some judgements in part or in whole.

If it were a singular item, created and then forgotten, (like a book in your false premise above) then one would get what they get. But when it is an ongoing venture that I am still being asked to pay for, then I get to say what I would like to buy there.

You want some tyrannical stroke to descend declaring that the consumer either totally accept the will of the producer and capitulate entirely or else leave entirely.

But the negotiation of ongoing purchases lets the the consumer have a say to some degree before any kid of absolute.

Your extreme, stockholmed worldview and its strange projection here just doesn’t reflect the physics of producer/consumer dynamics.

You are free to bend a knee and accept your fate as offered by your own defacto employees if you like. But some of us would like to continue to make our favorite pastime a place in which we want to invest time and money…

before it’s not.

[Lacryma-wyrmrest-accord (Lacryma)]

More attacks driven by emotion and a slavering need for control, rather than cold logic and intelligence. The amount of nonsense and issues being voiced by you are also, way, way, above my pay grade. All I can do in answer to that is recommend that you seek out a professional to help you with this issue of co-dependence you seem to have with World of Warcraft.

Moreover if you want to pontificate on the ‘alleged’ evils of Corporations, and the fragility of an artist’s ego, I recommend taking it up with your local Congressman or Senator. Such topics are out of place on a video-game forum.

For my part, I will stick to what the law says, and it says bluntly that all things are owned by Blizzard. Hopefully that never changes, because otherwise; God help the Developers who have to clear everything with the mobs of psychology that dwell on these forums.

I suggest you accept that because that is what a judge will rule as well. Your problem which you illustrate quite handily is that you have been trained to believe that merely because you dislike a given law, you are somehow exempt from it. I could care less what some ‘self proclaimed expert’, cited in a study or what some ‘erudite’ focus group says.

I want the black-letter of the law, because that’s the final word on the subject.

Since you still cannot grasp that, all I can say definitively is the following:

As I said before, what is unfortunate is that the majority of my generation seems to have grown into a generation of delusional, self-important, and entitled cry-babies that only now as man-children finally are realizing that they do not get everything they want by stamping their feet and throwing a temper-tantrum.

That is all you have illustrated flawlessly with your inability to accept reality.

Edit:

…Or don’t. Wowzers. 3 seconds after I posted, he’s already at work on his next grand argument. I think he may be sitting at his computer with a expectant look on his face… Not unlike a puppy eager for it’s owner to come home.

Don’t bother replying, I’m done here. Trying to convince someone like you who clearly has never studied Contract Law is an exercise in futility. Moreover Einstein already summed it up well enough. “To repeat the same action, and expect a different result is the definition of insanity.” Good luck to you.

[Anthaniel-moon-guard (Anthaniel)]

More attacks driven by emotion and a slavering need for control, rather than cold logic and intelligence. The amount of nonsense and issues being voiced by you are also, way, way, above my pay grade. All I can do in answer to that is recommend that you seek out a professional to help you with this issue of co-dependence you seem to have with World of Warcraft.

I’m glad to see that you still “dont care”. Your taciturn resolve is an inspiration to us all.

For my part, I will stick to what the law says, and it says bluntly that all things are owned by Blizzard. Hopefully that never changes, because otherwise; God help the Developers who have to clear everything with the mobs of psychology that dwell on these forums.

Myopia is a blessing in some.

I suggest you accept that because that is what a judge will rule as well. Your problem which you illustrate quite handily is that you have been trained to believe that merely because you dislike a given law, you are somehow exempt from it. I could care less what some ‘self proclaimed expert’, cited in a study or what some ‘erudite’ focus group says.

A judge? …are you okay? I feel like you might be experiencing some sort of extreme reaction. Deep breaths perhaps?

3 seconds after I posted, he’s already at work on his next grand argument. I think he may be sitting at his computer with a expectant look on his face… Not unlike a puppy eager for it’s owner to come home.

Do you not appreciate prompt replies? I suppose you do not.

In my defense, many people do. Apologies if you were looking for something else.

I have described to you the way things work in the real world, but It seems like my observations are very triggering to you and I really have no desire to cause you undue stress and distraction in these unfortunate times.

Perhaps we can just agree to disagree, like civilized adults and go our own ways. I think that would be best and I’m sure you agree.

It seems like this has been a trying day, do take care of yourself.

[Aevelamue-faerlina]

it’s like asking a dark iron why is a flaming beard so important

[Dayon-wyrmrest-accord (Dayon)]

Yeah I just figured it was blatantly obvious how Blizzard works in terms of races swapping faction sides.

This isn’t a race swapping sides. Blood Elves who became Void Elves swapped sides. High Elves being playable is not swapping sides.

Yeah and if you honestly don’t think game play things take priority over lore

I think they’re both important, and I don’t think this is a lore issue that compromises anything in gameplay, especially since it’s already happened. Even though you think it’s a mistake, there Void Elves and Blood Elves share the same model across factions. The game didn’t break, did it?

Nobody says they aren’t, though.

Exactly, no one says it. So saying “Blood Elves are High Elves”, while biologically true, is not relevant to the argument.

The reason why that statement shows a failure to understand is that the High Elf players don’t want to play on the Horde. They want to play on the Alliance. They also don’t want the voidy stuff.

Yes, but they will only be playable on one side.

For now.

Like I said, there’s no equivalent to give to the horde even if somehow they changed directors.

What do you mean by “equivalent”? I think I know what you mean, but please clarify.

What would the horde get?

Taunka, beefy Forest Trolls, Ogres, or Hozen would be amazing. There are tons of Allied Race potential from established races already part of the Horde.

I’ve never really said there are none.

The race officially left the alliance already, though.

What’s the difference between “there are none” and “their race is not in the Alliance”? Don’t walk it back, you all but used the lack of High Elf presence in the Alliance as a point against them.

High Elves aren’t playable on the Horde. Blood Elves don’t call themselves High Elves. The biological similarities don’t matter when simply being an elf is not what the Alliance players want. The Alliance want an Alliance fantasy, with which to play Alliance stories. Telling them to ‘play Horde’ instead is like telling someone to play a different game. It’s a failure to look at the issue for what it is.

[Nexsa-zuljin]

You could also just make a Blood Elf. It’s exactly that.

It was bad enough for me to see Alliance get the model, but trying still to get the rest of the options is annoying.

Don’t like playing Horde? Too bad. I don’t like playing Alliance, but I still make alt toons of the races I like on that side.

[Fobnop-turalyon (Fobnop)]

Now… Blood Elves get blue eyes, are they now considered High Elves now?

Really, yes. Belfs are still Helfs, they always have been. They call themselves a different name but biologically they are the same. The only difference is the color of their eyes. With the Sunwell corruption fading the Belfs eyes can turn blue again.

The only difference between Belfs and NPC Helfs is ideological and what name they identify by as a result.

[Annaillusion-moon-guard]

This isn’t a race swapping sides. Blood Elves who became Void Elves swapped sides. High Elves being playable is not swapping sides.

If using the exact same models as blood elves as you stated yourself, saying that there’s literally no physical difference. It would be. Unless you’re back peddling now?

I think they’re both important, and I don’t think this is a lore issue that compromises anything in gameplay, especially since it’s already happened. Even though you think it’s a mistake, there Void Elves and Blood Elves share the same model across factions

Yes, and they didn’t make them high elves because, as you yourself stated, they’re no different from blood elves physically.

The game didn’t break, did it?

No, but a lot of people acknowledge that void elves weren’t modified nearly enough as nightborne were modified from night elves to not look like a direct copy paste from their original race.

Exactly, no one says it. So saying “Blood Elves are High Elves”, while biologically true, is not relevant to the argument.

It is when you’re asking for the same exact model with no changes at all to be copied to the opposite faction. Blizzard made it pretty clear with nightborn and void elves they won’t just copy and paste them without ANY modifications at all.

The reason why that statement shows a failure to understand is that the High Elf players don’t want to play on the Horde. They want to play on the Alliance. They also don’t want the voidy stuff.

Then, as per the developers themselves, you won’t be able to normal skin colored elves. I don’t get what’s so hard about that to understand.

For now.

On as per the developers of the game itself, the very foreseeable future.

What do you mean by “equivalent”? I think I know what you mean, but please clarify.

You want to take the blood elf model and put it on the horde and call it high elves. You stated there’s literally no physical difference at all. So? What does the horde get? You think It’s acceptable to take one horde and put it on the opposite faction without any kind of opposite swap?

I know the alliance has gotten tons of stuff the horde hasn’t this expansion, but taking an race model once again from the horde and giving it to the alliance…is extremely not likely to happen.

What’s the difference between “there are none” and “their race is not in the Alliance”? Don’t walk it back, you all but used the lack of High Elf presence in the Alliance as a point against them.

The race officially leaving the alliance and joining the horde to become playable means the handful of high elves that chose not to change their name are less likely than any other race to become playable, especially for the opposite faction.

The biological similarities don’t matter when simply being an elf is not what the Alliance players want.

The amount of “I’m quitting the game” threads and “horde favoritism” threads seem to disagree partially with this, so I really wouldn’t try and speak for an entire faction.

The Alliance want an Alliance fantasy, with which to play Alliance stories.

Unfortunately they want alliance fantasy from before the game was made, which has already changed to become horde fantasy. The game developers have told the alliance that multiple times and refusing to accept it and continuing to demand and complain that Blizzard never listens to you has proven to be extremely fruitless and childish.

Telling them to ‘play Horde’ instead is like telling someone to play a different game. It’s a failure to look at the issue for what it is.

No, it’s them saying “Yeah, there’s no point in time that high elves as a playable race have been alliance fantasy during world of warcraft. They’re not horde fantasy during this entire game, sorry” Considering they’re putting high elf NPCs in Silvermoon for shadowlands, I think that further shows that point.

[Snowsong-fizzcrank]

Considering they’re putting high elf NPCs in Silvermoon for shadowlands, I think that further shows that point.

As much as I would love to see this, I haven’t heard or seen anything about High elf NPCs in Silvermoon yet. Was this datamined?

It does seem to make sense considering their strives to diversify the many stories a race might offer to players when considering their potential backgrounds. With Blue eyed Blood elves becoming more prominent, I could see them adding more High elf NPCs to flesh out the narrative.

[Ariël-drakkari (Ariël)]

Really, yes. Belfs are still Helfs, they always have been. They call themselves a different name but biologically they are the same. The only difference is the color of their eyes. With the Sunwell corruption fading the Belfs eyes can turn blue again.

The only difference between Belfs and NPC Helfs is ideological and what name they identify by as a result.

This guy gets it… also to answer OP: I guess people complains cause they love both the drama AND the attention, no more and no less.

Plainly, blue eyed customization for playable Blood elves =/= no playable version of High elf in the future. This can only become reality the moment the devs explicitly say so, rest is mere conjecture, period.

People against would do well in staying quiet regarding meddling with a bussiness that´s not theirs (cause yes, qqqing under a supposed denial for their playable Blood Elf model with light skin is absolutely irrelevant in regards to another playable model getting updates and more varied customization, period).

[Dayon-wyrmrest-accord (Dayon)]

If using the exact same models as blood elves as you stated yourself, saying that there’s literally no physical difference.

I don’t consider it be ‘swapping sides’ if the race sharing the model is already a part of that faction in the lore.

No, but a lot of people acknowledge that void elves weren’t modified nearly enough

They apparently didn’t need it.

Blizzard made it pretty clear with nightborn and void elves they won’t just copy and paste them without ANY modifications at all.

Except with the Void Elves, apparently, whose modifications you find lacking.

I don’t get what’s so hard about that to understand.

Hazzikostas’ perspective is understood. He is believed to be wrong, which is why the support is still being shown.

He also described the Blood Elfs as the “fair-skinned” elf fantasy, and new customization features being added definitely contradict that. Seems to me like his vision of the Blood Elves is a bit flawed.

On as per the developers of the game itself, the very foreseeable future.

Again, for now.

You think It’s acceptable to take one horde and put it on the opposite faction without any kind of opposite swap?

If the race using that model is already part of the Alliance in canon, yes.

but taking an race model once again from the horde and giving it to the alliance…is extremely not likely to happen.

Except it already has with the Void Elves.

The race officially leaving the alliance and joining the horde to become playable means the handful of high elves that chose not to change their name are less likely than any other race to become playable, especially for the opposite faction.

If they’re part of the faction already, why are they less likely? Seems like they’d be more likely than a race that didn’t exist in the first place.

The amount of “I’m quitting the game” threads and “horde favoritism” threads seem to disagree partially with this, so I really wouldn’t try and speak for an entire faction.

That’s your interpretation. Seems like a reach to me, though.

Unfortunately they want alliance fantasy from before the game was made, which has already changed to become horde fantasy.

Then why are there still High Elves in the Alliance, and why are they still shown prominently through the surviving Windrunner sisters?

Considering they’re putting high elf NPCs in Silvermoon for shadowlands, I think that further shows that point.

There were High Elf pilgrims visible when you went to the Sunwell to do the Quel’delar questline in Wrath. Blood Elves allowed their high elf cousins to visit. I’ve heard of no such changes to Silvermoon City to allow High Elf NPCs and WoWHead’s been doing a pretty good job covering everything. Do you have a source to back that up?

[Hornyvixen-area-52]

to the hopefuls;

24:18

[Annaillusion-moon-guard]

I don’t consider it be ‘swapping sides’ if the race sharing the model is already a part of that faction in the lore.

It’s not playable, though and that’s a very huge distinction. To pretend it doesn’t matter is just silly.

They apparently didn’t need it.

Or they were crunched for time as we can tell their counter part had a lot more modification to make them look different in. Where as they did the opposite with trolls & kul’tirans. Kul’tirans caused a delay in releasing the races due to the Kul’tirans requiring extensive rigging work and making things from scratch, from what I learned.

Except with the Void Elves, apparently, whose modifications you find lacking.

Yes.

He also described the Blood Elfs as the “fair-skinned” elf fantasy, and new customization features being added definitely contradict that. Seems to me like his vision of the Blood Elves is a bit flawed.

Because they are, but clearly they’ve decided to forgo lore in favor of character customization. However I think high elves on the alliance would be an a stretch that would be too far for even Blizzard.

Also, the OPTION being added doesn’t make them NOT predominantly a fair-skinned eleven race. If they completely took away the fair skin option and turned all the blood elves into an extremely dark skinned race, you’d actually have a point. I honestly doubt that any blood elf or high elf NPCs will have this dark skin color and it will remain a player only customization option, furthering my point.

Again, for now.

Sure, but I think the things stacking against it being reasonable are a lot more than it ever being likely.

If the race using that model is already part of the Alliance in canon, yes.

Except it’s not playable as it shouldn’t be, almost the entire race joined the horde. The developers have stated that already. You can ask and beg all you want for them to ALSO join the alliance, but after being told no multiple times you can’t blame people for thinking the demand and anger surrounding NOT getting it is completely childish and getting old.

Except it already has with the Void Elves.

Yes and had Blizzard had more time, I have no doubt they would have actually spent time modifying them to be different like they did with nightborn. It’s blatantly obvious one got more attention than the other, just as Kul’tirans got more attention than the trolls.

If they’re part of the faction already, why are they less likely? Seems like they’d be more likely than a race that didn’t exist in the first place.

Because the race has already been made playable. It’s on the horde. That’s what the developers of the game have said since BC. Demanding it be added to the alliance as well is just unreasonable when they keep telling you that, in my opinion.

That’s your interpretation. Seems like a reach to me, though.

It’s my interpretation that you don’t speak for every member of the alliance when there’s literally proof of that being false in these very forums…? What?

Then why are there still High Elves in the Alliance, and why are they still shown prominently through the surviving Windrunner sisters?

Through one surviving windrunner sister. The other is a void elf.

There were High Elf pilgrims visible when you went to the Sunwell to do the Quel’delar questline in Wrath. Blood Elves allowed their high elf cousins to visit. I’ve heard of no such changes to Silvermoon City to allow High Elf NPCs and WoWHead’s been doing a pretty good job covering everything. Do you have a source to back that up?

No and it may actually not be true, I have no credible source for this and acknowledge it was just hearsay from other players. Feel free to completely disregard it.

[Anansi-quelthalas]

Because Alliance players love blue glowing eyes: Nelves, Draenei and Velves.

[Dayon-wyrmrest-accord (Dayon)]

It’s not playable, though and that’s a very huge distinction. To pretend it doesn’t matter is just silly.

It’s not as huge as you seem to think it is. Didn’t stop the Void Elves from using the same model.

Or they were crunched for time

Doesn’t matter if they were crunched for time, if they didn’t need it, they didn’t need it.

Because they are, but clearly they’ve decided to forgo lore

Or Ion just has a flawed vision of the lore. That’s fine, since that’s not his job.

Sure, but I think the things stacking against it

There’s not as much stacking against it as you might there to be. You’re so insistent that the Horde owns the blood elf model even though it’s currently on the Alliance, too. You’ve got a dev saying he’s not interested in doing so, which only matters until he changes his mind, which I’m not sure is the trump card people make it out to be.

He’s willing to admit when he’s been wrong about feedback and systems, and somehow you think he’s not capable of being convinced he might be wrong about lore, too.

Except it’s not playable as it shouldn’t be

I think all the politically-aligned races should be playable. Otherwise why keep them in their respective factions?

You can ask and beg all you want for them to ALSO join the alliance

They already joined the Alliance. Even if they’re not playable, they’re still in the Alliance.

Yes and had Blizzard had more time, I have no doubt they would have actually spent time modifying them to be different like they did with nightborn.

Blizzard could do a lot of things with infinite time. Welcome to game development. It’s clearly not critical if they were satisfied to put Void Elves in the live game as they were. It’s obviously not important to Blizzard if the Alliance and Horde both share the elf model.

Because the race has already been made playable. It’s on the horde.

But they’re members of the Alliance, too. Have been before the blood elves were on the Horde.

It’s my interpretation that you don’t speak for every member of the alliance

I’m just speaking for myself. The only time I’ve claimed to speak for the Alliance players is when people fail to understand that some of them want an Alliance fantasy, and being told to play Horde is not going to satisfy them.

The other is a void elf.

The only Void Elf that can still transform into a normal-looking High Elf.

No and it may actually not be true, I have no credible source for this and acknowledge it was just hearsay from other players.

You’ve been doing that a lot.

[Ariël-drakkari (Ariël)]

Blizzard is insisting that a race with ties to the Alliance is now ONLY a Horde fantasy.

Sure thing man, that´s why Afriasiabi himself said there´s a chance Velves can get High Elf customization options too (maybe not right now, but indeed a possibility at some point in the future).

There´s no excuse that justifies “the rage”, dude. It´s just hypocritical manchildren qqing over something that frankly it´s not their bussiness (blue eyed customization for playable Blood elves is just that: a cosmetic feature designed to fulfill a petition made by the Blood elf playerbase and validated as “possible” for the lead game director, nothing more and nothing less).

Not even Ion denied the possibility High Elves could be adressed in the future ina that very same interview last year, it´s just that some very vocal and paranoid posters took the part they needed -as usual- to propel their victim mentality propaganda. Stop enabling them ffs!!

Blue eye customization for Blood elves =/= absolute denial from Blizzard to address future High Elf implementation in game on Alliance side.

[Baladar-exodar]

And now that prince is dead, the Sunwell is restored, and the regent is more open minded? The same regent who led forces against the said prince, learning the promise of the prince was a mere illusion. So they would actually now “stand” with those who refused to follow Prince Kael’thas.

So what would keep them, those Quel’dorei who refused to follow the prince, from rejoining their kingdom now?

Vareesa was exiled, not the Silver Covenant who are by all means, aligned with Dalaran and not the Alliance too. What would make them not enjoy the Independence of a Horde aligned Quel’thalas kingdom and not subservient to human wants and whims? Especially being Quel’dorei, a prideful people.

[Dayon-wyrmrest-accord (Dayon)]

Vareesa was exiled, not the Silver Covenant who are by all means, aligned with Dalaran and not the Alliance too.

The SIlver Covenenant are aligned with the Alliance. Check the wiki.

[Baladar-exodar]

You’re not a Quel’dorei. That specifically refers to the group still aligned to the Alliance.

Only the Sin’dorei are in the Horde.

Horde is horde and alliance is alliance, I don’t want the factions mixed and the faction divide blurred

Why is allowing a race on the Alliance, that is already canonically on the Alliance, something that would blur the faction line?

Who and Why would there be Quel’dorei aligned with the Alliance still?

The Prince is dead and the Sunwell is restored, what keeps them from rejoining their people?

The Silver Covenant are Dalaran aligned. EDIT: They are also of the Alliance Vanguard shrugs but an accounted force. My point is the vast majority of the Quel’dorei are NOT one faction.

[Annaillusion-moon-guard]

It’s not as huge as you seem to think it is. Didn’t stop the Void Elves from using the same model.

Nope, but they also didn’t look as you said completely the same as blood elves, either. Regardless of how low effort they were, so it really is bigger than you’re trying to make it out to be.

You’ve got a dev saying he’s not interested in doing so, which only matters until he changes his mind, which I’m not sure is the trump card people make it out to be.

It’s not a trump card. It’s people saying “You guys…you’ve been asking for 13 years. You keep being told no. Just stop, you’re acting ridiculous”

He’s willing to admit when he’s been wrong about feedback and systems, and somehow you think he’s not capable of being convinced he might be wrong about lore, too.

I guess if in your heart of hearts you truly believe he will, that’s your opinion. I definitely disagree and don’t think it’ll ever happen.

I think all the politically-aligned races should be playable. Otherwise why keep them in their respective factions?

I 100% disagree. Saying that the factions can’t have allies unless they’re playable is silly and would severely stunt any kind of flavor or verity we’d get in quests. Could you imagine never having allies unless they were playable? It’d make questing so much more boring than it already is and feel very bland.

If it took minimal to no effort to add races with minimal resources being spent doing so, you’d have a point in my opinion. But as we saw with allied races, races that have barely any difference from their base model, took quite a bit of resources and time to make playable.

It’s obviously not important to Blizzard if the Alliance and Horde both share the elf model.

It’s not the same model, though. They had to be changed, regardless of how minimal void elves came off to be changed. You’re asking for the same exact model for the alliance, though.

I’m just speaking for myself.

The biological similarities don’t matter when simply being an elf is not what the Alliance players want. The Alliance want an Alliance fantasy, with which to play Alliance stories

Maybe you should re-word things from “alliance players want” to “I want” then.

The only time I’ve claimed to speak for the Alliance players is when people fail to understand that some of them want an Alliance fantasy

You didn’t say some, though. You said the alliance, as in anyone who plays the alliance wants. Just say what you actually mean “I want high elves” “I want the blood elf model be on the alliance but called high elves” unless you have specific people who also want exactly what you want.

The only Void Elf that can still transform into a normal-looking High Elf.

Yup, that’s what they stated. They had an entire cut scene that showed how her transformation was completely different than the rest of the races transformation. The people demanding that they be able to make their void elves look the same as their leader apparently don’t realize all leaders have a unique custom model separate from anything a player can do to make them look unique and stand out.

If they allowed void elves to look and do the same things as their leader, they’d have to do that for all races, which could possibly happen, but advocating for it for JUST one race comes off as unable to understand the implications of what they’re asking for and easily dismiss-able.

You’ve been doing that a lot.

So have you.