Why Dishonorable Kills failed at their intended purpose

[Krackillz-sargeras]

Unfortunately with the additional of DHK’s I’ll be queuing as far away from other people as possible, even with a premade. I don’t need a bad actor sabotaging my rank grinding because he decides he want to gank some lowbies and accidentally shanks an Civilan tagged NPC within’ range of me.

And I won’t be able to participate in city raiding because AoE will inevitably cause an DHK

No need to worry about lowbies, only the civilian tagged npc’s can give DHK. you can gank away

[Aldenel-emerald-dream]

The lowbies I know, it’s the Civilian NPC that gets caught up in the shenanigans that’ll really roast my rump.

[Laeric-wyrmrest-accord]

I’m almost tempted to roll temporarily on a PVP realm just to see how this’ll play out. lol

[Krackillz-sargeras]

The lowbies I know, it’s the Civilian NPC that gets caught up in the shenanigans that’ll really roast my rump.

You would have to be intentionally attacking or being in/near and major city/quest hub of the opposite faction to get an unintended DHK.

[Ulthric-kelthuzad]

How am I supposed to try to derank people like you if they take DHKs out of the game?

[Ogimirak-medivh]

Where’s the line on this? Do you want to re-create bugs? How about exploits? What differentiates these from dysfunctional features? There’s no doubt at this point that DHKs were broken.

If you’re telling me you’re in favor of recreating broken mechanics that hinder the spirit of vanilla for the sake of completeness, well, this is where we part ways.

Dude, DHKs were not broken. They were in the game for 18 months until the end of Vanilla.

You not liking something is not = “broken”

[Aldenel-emerald-dream]

You would have to be intentionally attacking or being in/near and major city/quest hub of the opposite faction to get an unintended DHK.

Well, if Battle Masters aren’t available at the BG drop then everyone will be queuing in hostile zones with opposite faction NPC’s relatively close.

Such as AV would be close to Tarren Mill.

I just hope the range isn’t humongous like I remember it being.

[Krackillz-sargeras]

You would have to be intentionally attacking or being in/near and major city/quest hub of the opposite faction to get an unintended DHK.

Well, if Battle Masters aren’t available at the BG drop then everyone will be queuing in hostile zones with opposite faction NPC’s relatively close.

Such as AV would be close to Tarren Mill.

I just hope the range isn’t humongous like I remember it being.

Definitely not that far. It’s in a different zone.

[Johnnyderp-arthas (Johnnyderp)]

Yup! Dishonorable kills were pointless.

They were also in 1.12. Good talk!

[Cybaster-cenarion-circle]

He’s got brevity, I’ll give him that.

[Rektium-firetree]

How did they fail? They were introduced to reduce quest NPC grieving. Did it stop it completely? No but it did reduce it. You even go and explain that it stops some people from doing that or doing it all the time. You just disproved your own point is what you said. Unless that is if what you expect DHKS to do was to stop any form of quest NPC grieving, then your assumption of the system is wrong.

[Cybaster-cenarion-circle]

I deliberately and specifically explained how, mechanically, DHKs did nothing to reduce said griefing, by describing the conditions under which these mechanics could meaningfully impact a player’s attempts to rank, which turns out to be functionally never.

I concede, they did have a significant psychological impact, specifically deterring city raiders from putting the War in Warcraft via frightening red numbers and pop-ups. But those players weren’t in cities to grief. They were there to for large scale battle, in keeping with the spirit of vanilla.

So, DHKs did do a thing. And the thing they did was bad, and they didn’t do the good thing people imagined they did.

[Badminou-kelthuzad]

At the same time it also disrupts from group/guild play, since someone that is actively ranking has to constantly tell people do not npc kill and when someone actually does they have to leave the group and it’s a very cumbersome kinda thing if you’ve played with several people in one raid ranking at once and having to constantly reinvite because they suspect someones going to kill an NPC before we make it to the raid.

[Krackillz-sargeras]

Was it in Vanilla? Yes.
Should it be in Classic? Yes.

That should be the end of the story.

But by all means, keep peddling your “fixed” version of the game that isn’t Classic.

[Kelzar-agamaggan (Kelzar)]

So many people who do not understand software.

There is NO DIFFERENCE between a bug and broken piece of software. There is a running joke about turning bugs into features.

DHK are broken, and were broken from the outset for the reasons mentioned.

THEY DO NOT stop griefing(there intended purpose).
They DO severely limit random capital city raids and other world pvp pickup groups.

There is NO reason to add DHKs to the game. NONE. They were not in the game for over 6 months, they do nothing for why they were added and hinder other parts of the game.

[Ogimirak-medivh]

At the same time it also disrupts from group/guild play, since someone that is actively ranking has to constantly tell people do not npc kill and when someone actually does they have to leave the group and it’s a very cumbersome kinda thing if you’ve played with several people in one raid ranking at once and having to constantly reinvite because they suspect someones going to kill an NPC before we make it to the raid.

Hey man, we get that some people aren’t really raiding cities because they want to do actual world pvp. They are raiding cities because they want to farm honor because they want gear.

City raids don’t need players who are selfishly putting their personal “honor farming” needs ahead of the fun of the rest of the raid.

If they want to farm honor, they can do battlegrounds – which were added to the game AT THE SAME TIME as dishonorable kills. What an amazing coincidence. This is far better than constantly whining in raid chat and on the forums about how other players are not playing in the way that suits them.

DKs are the quickest way to find the babies.

[Krackillz-sargeras]

So many people who do not understand software.

There is NO DIFFERENCE between a bug and broken piece of software. There is a running joke about turning bugs into features.

DHK are broken, and were broken from the outset for the reasons mentioned.

THEY DO NOT stop griefing(there intended purpose).
They DO severely limit random capital city raids and other world pvp pickup groups.

There is NO reason to add DHKs to the game. NONE. They were not in the game for over 6 months, they do nothing for why they were added and hinder other parts of the game.

Honor wasn’t in the game for 4.5 months, should we leave that out too?

[Cybaster-cenarion-circle]

It is disingenuous and even a little absurd for you to imply that there’s no cross-over between people who enjoy the honor system and people who enjoy city raiding.

There is, and the crossover is basically 90% of city raiders.

[Kelzar-agamaggan (Kelzar)]

Was it in Vanilla? Yes.
Should it be in Classic? Yes.

That should be the end of the story.

But by all means, keep peddling your “fixed” version of the game that isn’t Classic.

It was in Vanilla without DHKs… so it should be in Classic as well…

OH WAIT THATS HORRIBLE now we both used the same argument to get different conclusions… guess we should just have it both in the game and not in the game.

OR

we could look at it and say this was both in the game and not in the game which version should we use(like they asked us to with an example given of 5/10m strat/scholo)

And if you do that there is no reason to keep the DHK version in the game since it is OBJECTIVELY WORSE in EVERY way.

[Kelzar-agamaggan (Kelzar)]

you cannot be this obtuse and not be a troll…