Why did we get fat humans?

[Cornstalker-trollbane (Cornstalker)]

I mean…if you completely ignore what you don’t want to read, sure. I clearly pointed out where it makes the clear distainction between the various types of fats and carbs involved, but you keep going “herp, fats are fine!”

the pages you linked were sourced from the American government though, they are not reliable sources for nutritional information.

But yes, artificial trans fats are not healthy.

[Wanobi-dark-iron (Wanobi)]

Coincidentally, based on the USDA page linked by the same person telling us that high fat diets are leading to obesity… from the 70s specifically obesity rates began to skyrocket, when low fat food items were heavily pushed onto the public.

Ah, good thing neither of those pages are the USDA…

The CDC (Centers for Disease Control, and DHHS (Department of Health and Human Services).

A little reading goes a long way…

[Cornstalker-trollbane (Cornstalker)]

Ah, good thing neither of those pages are the USDA…

The CDC (Centers for Disease Control, and DHHS (Department of Health and Human Services).

A little reading goes a long way…

you linked a page from the USDA…

Also, the CDC is just as unreliable for nutritional information

[Cornstalker-trollbane (Cornstalker)]

https://health.gov/dietaryguidelines/dga2010/DietaryGuidelines2010.pdf

this one dude rofl, and yes it’s a collaboration of USDA and HHS

[Wanobi-dark-iron (Wanobi)]

That’s the health. gov website, which if you scroll down to the bottom of each page, clearly says:

This site is coordinated by the Office of Disease Prevention and Health Promotion, Office of the Assistant Secretary for Health, Office of the Secretary, U.S. Department of Health and Human Services.

I mean

this one dude rofl

[Cornstalker-trollbane (Cornstalker)]

look at the very first page. Wow dude

DietaryGuidelines2010.pdf

It even has Thomas J. Vilsack’s signature on it rofl

[Wanobi-dark-iron (Wanobi)]

You said and kept repeating “page.” If you were referring to the report, you should have said so. You keep making these mistakes and acting like I should know what you’re talking about.

“rofl”

The report is published by both agencies (something you conveniently leave out). So, it isn’t just a USDA report. It’s a jointly issued report, meaning that experts from across their respective fields weighed in and contributed to the subject. So your attempts to discredit it on that front fail spectacularly.

Interesting how you want to avoid the “off topic” label when we’re discussing your full of holes story, but you have no issues doing so when you make up stuff about a report you clearly didn’t bother reading past the letters “USDA.”

[Cornstalker-trollbane (Cornstalker)]

I referred to it as “the usda page” because that was a short way to type it out

this one dude rofl, and yes it’s a collaboration of USDA and HHS

That’s what you call a strawman dude. I’ve lived in America all my life and there is no trusting these sources at least in my opinion. Funny how I switched to a low carb high fat diet many years ago and I felt better and lost a lot of weight. Nothing I tried before that worked, and I regularly exercise.

You haven’t argued any point against me discrediting these sources other than “you said it was only USDA nuh uhh got uuuuuu!!!”

[Wanobi-dark-iron (Wanobi)]

You haven’t argued any point against me discrediting these sources

“Discrediting these sources.” I mean, “can’t trust guberment” isn’t “discrediting.” They did research, posted their findings and published them on the public forum. Your job, if you disagree is to either do likewise or to find those to disagree with said findings (equally credible sources), and go from there. That’s how debate works, especially when one is debating the merits of academic and/or professionally published works.

I mean, otherwise if we’re just going to go by whoever does the “handwave your point(s) away” and “I win.”

“infinite handwave your points away.”

AND

“infinite I win.”

Or we can continue the discussion. Circling back to the earlier points about your story that you are still ducking.

[Cornstalker-trollbane (Cornstalker)]

The year 2016 there was a massive amount of publishing on news sites/sources that our sugar industry was heavily influencing our heart disease research in order to protect profits. This is now common knowledge. I would say try looking for research past that date if you want to prove anything. Even then it would be interesting to see if it’s changed at all.

Also, you are the one posting sources that I find uncredible due to these recent events and personal experiences with dieting. I really don’t care what you think about my ‘opinion’ rofl. How about you convince me that they aren’t manipulated and reliable? I worked at a hospital for many years and I don’t just blindly trust physicians and doctors.

[Cornstalker-trollbane (Cornstalker)]

Another thing that could help your case is locating research that comes from outside of America as well. Convincing people that “high fat diets” cause obesity is not going to be easy with the results keto diets are showing, but that doesn’t mean I think full on keto diets are healthy. They simply help you lose weight by forcing your body to produce ketones instead of insulin.

[Wanobi-dark-iron (Wanobi)]

This is now common knowledge. I would say try looking for research past that date if you want to prove anything.

Hold up. My job is to argue and source my side in this debate, not yours. I’ve never merc’d for a debate…and certainly never against myself. So, if you specifically want to rebut something I posted, look it up and do so. Otherwise, what you offer is an opinion, which you are entitled to…but it is not a rebuttal.

Also, you are the one posting sources that I find uncredible due to these recent events and personal experiences with dieting.

You may believe they are not credible…and like my earlier comment about anti vaxxers: until you can provide some hard contrary evidence, your opinion is just that. An opinion. You are free to have it, but in a debate…an opinion does not a rebuttal make.

How about you convince me that they aren’t manipulated and reliable? I worked at a hospital for many years and I don’t just blindly trust physicians and doctors.

They did their research and posted their findings. Post something proving they falsified it, maniupluted their data, etc. Otherwise you are simply trying to poison the well rather than offer a solid counter argument.

Another thing that could help your case is locating research that comes from outside of America as well.

Again, You have yet to offer one piece of solid counter argument that is sourced by any kind of professional literature (even by your own standards). You are setting a bar that you aren’t even meeting. I doubt you realize the double standard here.

[Cornstalker-trollbane (Cornstalker)]

I’ve never merc’d for a debate…and certainly never against myself.

You always want to try to find the flaws in your own debate, at least that’s what I was taught

You may believe they are not credible…and like my earlier comment about anti vaxxers: until you can provide some hard contrary evidence, your opinion is just that. An opinion. You are free to have it, but in a debate…an opinion does not a rebuttal make.

I really don’t care about this “debate” though. I was simply flabbergasted at the (often in outdated literature) repeated ignorant claim that “high fats cause obesity”

They did their research and posted their findings.

And I don’t trust them as a reliable source. If you think I’m ‘poisoning the well’ then how about we bring up some research proving that the keto diet causes weight gain? Since “high fat diets cause obesity” apparently.

I can distrust American government sources if I wish. I realize that linking “professional literature” isn’t going to meet your standards unless it comes from the exact sources I’m claiming to distrust, so I’m probably not going to bother lol.

[Loncis-deathwing (Loncis)]

At least I’m telling people to actually talk to their doctors, instead of whatever nonsense obesity acceptance you’re on about.

No, you’re telling people obesity is caused by a high-fat diet, which your own source does not corroborate.

Not once have you told people to talk to their doctors (who, by the way, are trained very little in the subject of nutrition).

And, no, I’m not about fat acceptance. On the contrary, I recognize that obesity related illnesses are the leading cause of death in this country. I’m simply telling you that a high-fat diet does not make people obese.

Our ancestors lived and evolved on a high-fat diet. Human beings owe their large brains to a high-fat diet. We would not exist as a species without a high-fat diet.

You simply don’t know what you’re talking about and rely on unreliable sources which don’t even corroborate what you’re saying.

[Cornstalker-trollbane (Cornstalker)]

It’s kind of a ridiculous conversation I jumped into, but this topic just makes me mad. I’ve had loved ones with heart disease who never could lose weight on low fat diets. They would try everything and go through all the research they could to try to be healthier, to no avail. I myself tried dieting with low fat diets too and it only made the problems worse.

I switch to a moderate form of keto but also emphasis on whole grains and fruit/veggies ONLY for carb intake… and it worked very well for me. My distrust of the government nutritional research stems largely from the mass reports of our sugar industry’s influence, which is abhorrent in my opinion as someone who worked at a laboratory, doing research, for many years.

[Wanobi-dark-iron (Wanobi)]

You always want to try to find the flaws in your own debate, at least that’s what I was taught

There’s a big difference between that, and between doing the other guy’s research for him (what you were asking for).

I really don’t care about this “debate” though.

You cared enough to keep posting…and to claim the sources I posted weren’t credible. Without a single shred of actual hard evidence. Beyond conspiracy and innuendo. You want that “flaw in your debate” advice? Avoid that kind of strawman. Find sources (if they exist), and take the time to engage rather than make those kind of accusations without merit.

And I don’t trust them as a reliable source. If you think I’m ‘poisoning the well’ then how about we bring up some research proving that the keto diet causes weight gain? Since “high fat diets cause obesity” apparently.

Once again, you want me to argue for your side. You want to argue for that. Go ahead. Find your sources and make your point. I made mine, provided credible sources that have yet to be rebutted and the points stand.

I can distrust American government sources if I wish. I realize that linking “professional literature” isn’t going to meet your standards unless it comes from the exact sources I’m claiming to distrust, so I’m probably not going to bother lol.

You are well within your rights to. But distrusting a source without providing any proof that their research is falsified, etc is just personal bias. Therefore, it is an opinion (which you are entitled to) but it is not a rebuttal. I pointed out that any reputable, professional source would be acceptable, but the fact that you are accepting defeat from the outset makes me wonder about the amount of what actually supports your position.

[Cornstalker-trollbane (Cornstalker)]

Once again, you want me to argue for your side. You want to argue for that. Go ahead. Find your sources and make your point.

I was more curious if you could convince me otherwise I’m not here to entertain your source flexing I simply don’t find anything you’re stating to have merit, and your sources make me shake my head.

[Cornstalker-trollbane (Cornstalker)]

Diet Review: Ketogenic Diet for Weight Loss

I hate doing this tbh. This site seems safe though, my antivirus shows it’s a secure connection but take that with a grain of salt.

This is a very generic article on the keto diet and how it works, but what I like about it is it also goes over potential dangers of the keto diet.

Do I trust this source? I don’t see any wild claims. This quote from it sums up something very important though: “Available research on the ketogenic diet for weight loss is still limited.”

So I don’t really see the point of me pulling a link out, but here’s one that you asked for from a college source.

OK now feel free to tell my why this source is wrong, it seems to suggest that a higher fat diet can lead to weight loss I have to warn you I probably won’t care either way.

[Wanobi-dark-iron (Wanobi)]

Not once have you told people to talk to their doctors (who, by the way, are trained very little in the subject of nutrition).

Well, let’s get two lies debunked! First:

Of course, each person should consult with their doctor to make sure there are not other contributing factors.

Second, a nutritionist or dietician is someone specifically trained in the areas were discussing. You can read the full breakdown of what it takes to becomes one in the link below, but here are some pertinent details:

Education

Dietitians and nutritionists typically need a bachelor’s degree in dietetics, foods and nutrition, clinical nutrition, public health nutrition, or a related area. Dietitians also may study food service systems management. Programs include courses in nutrition, psychology, chemistry, and biology.

Many dietitians and nutritionists have advanced degrees.

Training

Dietitians and nutritionists typically receive several hundred hours of supervised training, usually in the form of an internship following graduation from college. Some schools offer coordinated programs in dietetics that allow students to complete supervised training as part of their undergraduate or graduate-level coursework.
Licenses, Certifications, and Registrations

Many states require dietitians and nutritionists to be licensed in order to practice. Other states require only state registration or certification to use certain titles, and a few states have no regulations for this occupation.

The requirements for state licensure and state certification vary by state, but most include having a bachelor’s degree in food and nutrition or a related area, completing supervised practice, and passing an exam.

Many dietitians choose to earn the Registered Dietitian Nutritionist (RDN) credential. Although the RDN is not always required, the qualifications are often the same as those necessary for becoming a licensed dietitian in states that require a license. Many employers prefer or require the RDN, which is administered by the Commission on Dietetic Registration, the credentialing agency for the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics.

The RDN requires dietitian nutritionists to complete a minimum of a bachelor’s degree and a Dietetic Internship (DI), which consists of at least 1,200 hours of supervised experience. Students may complete both criteria at once through a coordinated program, or they may finish their required coursework and degree before applying for an internship. These programs are accredited by the Accreditation Council for Education in Nutrition and Dietetics (ACEND), part of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics. In order to maintain the RDN credential, dietitians and nutritionists who have earned it must complete 75 continuing professional education credits every 5 years.

Nutritionists may earn the Certified Nutrition Specialist (CNS) credential to show an advanced level of knowledge. The CNS credential or exam is accepted in several states for licensure purposes. To qualify for the credential, applicants must have a master’s or doctoral degree, complete 1,000 hours of supervised experience, and pass an exam. The credential is administered by the Board for Certification of Nutrition Specialists. To maintain the CNS credential, nutritionists must complete 75 continuing education credits every 5 years.

Dietitians and nutritionists may seek additional certifications in an area of specialty. The Commission on Dietetic Registration offers several specialty certifications in topics such as oncology nutrition, pediatric nutrition, renal nutrition, and sports dietetics, among others.
Important Qualities

Analytical skills. Dietitians and nutritionists must keep up to date with the latest food and nutrition research. They should interpret scientific studies and translate nutrition science into practical eating advice.

Source: https://www.bls.gov/ooh/Healthcare/Dietitians-and-nutritionists.htm#tab-4

Now, most nutritionists or dietitians I have known in a hospital or managed care setting are MDs as well (the “advanced degree” part). So, they can address medical issues related to diet and exercise in addition to the regular nutrition questions. Obviously, not every one of them is, but it maximizes their effectiveness.

I’m simply telling you that a high-fat diet does not make people obese.

…and like anti vaxxers, you are entitled to your erroneous opinion. The fact that you keep trying to shout down actual sources and downplay the problem that fats and low activity (which you finally retreated from) only shows you are the one arguing from an uninformed position.

Our ancestors

…did not consume unhealthy diets and live a low activity lifestyle. Otherwise, most of use wouldn’t be here to have this discussion today. But sure, go on believing that they krispy kreme’d their way to the modern age and somehow diabetes and all those nasty side effects of an unhealthy lifestyle are the invention of big pharma…or maybe it was the illuminati. Or maybe it all started when the Titanic was torpedoed.

You simply don’t know what you’re talking about and rely on unreliable sources

…and yet, you don’t have one single source that high fats are healthy for people. Nor have you posted anything that rebuts or discredits the sources I’ve posted. Just some conspiracy nonsense that it’s “unreliable”…because “guberment.”

I’m not here to entertain your source flexing

It’s not “source flexing.” You literally have provided nothing other than “nuh uh” as a rebuttal. All the head shaking in the world won’t change that.

Edit: now that’s you’ve actually posted something…I’ll read it and we can go from there.

[Cornstalker-trollbane (Cornstalker)]

…and yet, you don’t have one single source that high fats are healthy for people.

I think the problem we had with your statement was that high fats cause obesity. As far as high fat diets being healthy, there are many different types of fat out there. I’m not convinced saturated fats are somehow dangerous, but artificial trans fats are definitely a huge concern.