This was literally how the game was during Patch 1.12 - the patch that Blizzard promised would give us. The difficulty of it was subjective to your personal experiences. If you didn’t like how the game was at 1.12 then tough luck, because that’s the patch we’re playing on.
What were you expecting, that they phase out the content patches as if it were an actual release cycle? You’d be out of your damned mind. Not even counting that it would be difficult as hell to re-tune stuff accordingly with each cycle, but you forget that they have an entirely separate game that they also need to work on and have enough of a crew to keep an eye on balancing and making sure the phase content gets pushed out on a timely schedule for Classic.
Well, MC, Ony and BWL raids were a joke in 1.12 due to itemization getting better, but before that the only real difficulty was ensuring your raid had the proper structure of classes in it. The other main thing in MC, Ony and BWL was managing the 16 debuff cap and optimizing damage output for the classes that were obviously better.
No because they will be released pre-nerfed. Blizzard has said explicitly so. No one will get an authentic vanilla raiding experience again.
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You mean post nerfed. Pre implies that they will be at their original difficulty
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The nerf really only affected C’Thun and Emperors. AQ will still be a joke up until them due to the higher skill level of players and more information nowadays not to mention the better itemization of 1.12 vs 1.9.
ITT: A lot of people claiming how easy MC/Ony is now, but who have not yet done it themselves (and most likely never will)–and only watched a group of very coordinated and dedicated players do it.
This would be like me watching Tom Brady throw footballs, and saying “man, playing professional football sure is easy”. See how ridiculous that statement is?
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Not as easy as people think.
Was just talking about it with guildees and apparently Soda and his raid of pre 60’s couldn’t down Rag after 7 hours.
Add to that the fact that 1.12 was the ONLY data they had to work with. Nothing else before that existed in their database. The only reason that we even have Classic is because they somehow managed to find a backup inside of a backup that contained this data. They talked about it during the Classic panel at Blizzcon
The biggest thing people need to realized about how quickly MC and Ony were downed is that it was done was by people who played on an overtuned private server and have the experience of running MC and Ony as it relevant to those private servers. Ony and MC will still be a challenge for the majority of players (although not as much of a challenge compared to pre-1.12). It was also done utilizing methods that are now apparently hotfixed.
The enjoyment for me when I played vanilla was the experience of progressing through the original stories of World of Warcraft. Doing Strat, UBRS, LBRS, etc to get the dungeon sets. Getting your class epic item quest and progressing through that to finally get your class epic. I remember getting Anathema/Benediction and it was one of the most gratifying moments in my history of playing Wow despite me getting it really late into Vanilla.
Molten Core was always fairly easy.
Top raiders back in the day weren’t terrible, but they also didn’t have 15 years of knowledge or add-ons to rely on like we do now. Theorycrafting takes time. Figuring out every little boss mechanic takes time.
They aren’t things that the first players attempting raids necessarily had the luxury of. However today anybody who wants that information, can get everything about the game. We’ve figured everything out about the game that there is to figure out on account of it being 15 years old.
If they cleared it in 1.12 without everybody even being level 60, then they could have used 1.1 and it still would have been cleared super easy. Itemization changes weren’t even really in play at that point since it largely didn’t affect quest greens.
We are also talking about a group of people who got used to clearing Molten Core on private servers that we know overtuned their raids.
Progression is part of this game. It’s a game that can be played for years and years.
RPG’s are based on Content being farmable. You want to have the PvE gear on farm. It isn’t supposed to be this incredibly difficult task. You want to “complete” it. Then farm it.
Great games aren’t based on End Game Content. When we look at other great games like Diablo 2 it’s about farming the very best gear and the End game Content is trivial. However you still play that game for years after completing it.
The same goes for Vanilla which the Talent trees were based on Diablo and it was centered around having a RPG experience. After you complete the raids and get BiS gear. The game isn’t over. It is the beginning.
After I complete Naxx and get BiS gear I look forward to enjoying the game after that without the threat of another expansion or more content to do. That ruins the game. It’s good to be finished the Raids and in BiS gear. That is when the fun afterwards begins.
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Honestly we all knew this was what we were getting, we discussed this to death on these forums, and the idea of unnerfing the raids never got that much support. Now that it’s too late, people are coming out of the woodwork…
We knew layering would trivialise leveling/economy, we knew 1.12 frankenpatch would trivialise raids. The time to speak up about that was before release.
I remember getting my Druid alt to 60 around 1.12, and clearing MC with a group of other such totally ungeared alts. That’s just how it was in 1.12 - no surprises here.
Ultimately we got what we were told we were getting and I’m happy with it. Would have liked a more authentic recreation, but 1.13.1 is still great in my eyes.
Soda’s raid was a merger of like 3 or 4 different guilds so that they would have enough people just to get into MC.
Also, having cleared MC myself back before they nerfed everything, it was no different than going into any raid now, knowing what you had to do and what you had to avoid.
Mechanically though, MC is a total joke, but a lot of people are having a really hard time accepting this. Compare MC Rag to FL Rag. It is extremely obvious.
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1.12 had no changes made to rag since release. Not sure what you are talking about
Not how it was back then. I played in a top end server first mc/bwl guild and there is no way you were killing these raid bosses without the gear AND with sub-max level characters.
i wouldn’t use diablo as an example. more like elder scrolls games maybe, with a lot more farming. but i agree with you on that. I play RPGs to progress my character but I do like a final point, which pretty much all mmorpgs lack until they stop releasing content. that’s one of the perks of classic for me, its basically a standalone game at this point.
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OP, have you cleared any Classic raids yet? If not, why not?
I didn’t know that but that helps with the point I was trying to make.
People are saying what a joke it is that this skilled,coordinated and veteran team of players downed Rag with people below level 60 so it’s going to be a cakewalk.
Obviously not.
Because non-60’s could have cleared it in 1.1 as well… Molten Core isn’t hard.
Well, my point was that their raid was like a slightly better-than-normal pug because of their merger, and yet they had little issues reaching Rag. They spent roughly 2 hours on Rag, with most of the time spent getting the FR buff on the whole raid after a wipe.
A normally coordinated group will blow through this version of MC like nothing.
EDIT
Not to mention that many of them were sub-60 and undergeared.