Tiragarde keep. Talrendis point, Northwatch hold, Shadowfang Keep, Fenris Isle, Southshore. These are the places that needs to go away before any peace treaty can be taken seriously. Alliance is not about peace. Allaince is about humiliating their enemy.
Having peace is just saying the alliance wins and the Horde loses. I fully reject that.
They are about to get a new world tree with updated graphics. They got constant attention since Legion. No other race except humans get this much from Blizzard. The Horde gets scraps at best. Never the main meat of the story.
When I checked Caliaâs Wowpedia article, it said that by the end of BtS, she changed her tune on that and considers the forsaken her responsibility, viewed Sylvanas as an usurper, and only felt she was unqualified to lead because she needed more training.
Blizzard loves the reluctant leader trope so Caliaâs initial refusal isnât a point in favor of that, IMO.
I very much believe she was initially being set up to be the forsakensâ replacement leader, with Derek as her +1 to mirror Nathanos, and that the only reason why 9.2.5 played out like it did was because the fan backlash brought her story to a screeching halt and derailed it in favor of a council to shut people up.
Exactly! Blizzard only backed down because the Forsaken community was so angry about her. Without making our voices hear on the forum we might have the bright lady now being new Forsaken Queen. That would have killed the game.
Fair enough. I have a couple hours, and I do genuinely like thinking about this setting. So letâs go.
First off, when I think of âtweakingâ or revamping Warcraftâs story, I always try to use WC3 as the foundation. Itâs a bit of a weird comparison, but for me, Warcraft 3 is the Morrowind of Warcraft. In terms of worldbuilding, this is where the series went from being a Warhammer spinoff to itâs own unique universe.
So, the lore as Iâm developing it is not fully compatible with modern retail lore. Iâm using Wc3, vanilla, bits from the RPG to fill in gaps, and selected bits from modern lore when necessary.
So with that in mind, letâs return to Sylvanasâs most famous line of all time. A line youâve only heard half of if youâve only played WoW:
Before all the Jailer BS, before all the questions of Sylvanasâs intentions and motivations, the writers made it very clear what the Forsaken were supposed to be, and what Sylvanasâs relationship was with both Varimathras and her new followers. Sylvanas is driven by her condition, her peopleâs future, and existential questions about the meaning of âlifeâ.
In WC3, we see that Sylvanas is disgusted with her condition, despite being âfreeâ. She famously says, "What are we if not slaves to this torment?!
These lines had meaning. They had intent. They had passion. These were the questions Sylvanas was trying to answer as part of this new existence. The Forsaken are a group of monsters, physically and mentally, trying to find a place for themselves in the world.
Enter the Horde
Before Sylvanas can lead her people to a new destiny, she has to focus on survival. The Forsaken canât hold Tirisfal on their own with both the Scourge and the Scarlet Crusade beating down on them. Initially, Sylvanas tries sending diplomats to Stormwind and Ironforge, the centers of power for the new Grand Alliance. Her goal is to stop the attacks from the Scarlet Crusade, who are (ostensibly) part of the Alliance, and to work together to destroy the Scourge. The Alliance, while noble, are monster-slayers at heart, and their prejudice led to the diplomats being killed on sight, without question.
Meanwhile, her only potential allies are a planet away. The huge bulk of the Blood Elf army is still in Outland, serving Illidan, and no one has heard from them since the 3rd war. The rest are too busy rebuilding their home and struggling with their addiction to be viable allies at all.
[Additional context: my thoughts on Illidan, Kaelâthas, and the Illidari are provided below]
So, surrounded by enemies on all sides, without a single friend on the planet, Sylvanas turns to another group of outcast monsters:
The Horde.
Thrall is initially against the Forsaken joining their new nation, but Cairne sees both an opportunity for the Horde, and for the greater good. Just like he took the orcs under his wing, providing him with a massive army, he convinces Thrall of the strategic value of holding the Eastern Kingdoms. He also sees similarities between the orcs and the forsaken. Cairne, both clever and wise, sees what the Forsaken could be if only they had friends who would treat them as equals. He convinces Thrall that isolating the Forsaken will only lead them down the path of evil.
Meanwhile, Magatha, leader of the largest and most militant Tauren tribe, sees the Forsaken as a useful army against the Alliance. The Grimtotems arenât well-liked by the other tribes, but they form a huge bulk of the Taurenâs armies, and ignoring their desires is simply not an option.
So from the get-go, we have several influences pulling upon the Forsaken, leading to all sorts of narrative and quest scenarios that will sink us deeper into this world and its unique, high-fantasy political intrigue.
Ever wonder why the Forsaken have an enclave in Thunder Bluff? And why they were allied with the Grimtotem in vanilla? Here you go.
So, in a bizarre twist of fate, The Forsaken join the Horde. Mostly out of sheer necessity. However, Sylvanas develops a grudging friendship with Cairne: the first living being to treat her like a person. She also, behind the scenes, develops a strong strategic partnership with Magatha, both aware that theyâre using each other to further their own military ends.
Overtime, by the simple act of players making Forsaken characters, doing quests, and grouping up with other Horde races, the Forsaken slowly begin to warm up to their new allies. In particular, they develop a strange friendship with the trolls, who share a lineage of dark magic and persecution. This would have been unheard of when the Forsaken were still humans, but theyâre quickly becoming their own people with their own beliefs and their own ideology. So, we now have a situation where players are developing the story simply by playing the game and interacting with other players. As it should be in an MMORPG.
This will be reflected in the gameâs narrative over time, as the Forsaken slowly but surely become less evil. Not COMPLETELY. We donât want to whitewash them like Blizz did with the Blood Elves. But, from launch day of WoW it was clear the Forsakenâs initial behavior was not sustainable for the story at all.
This is one of the first issues WoW had when developing the Horde: the Forsaken begin as pure evil, corrupted beings who are full of hatred, resentment, and trauma that de-sensitizes them to the horrors they commit. This was fine in vanilla because the story was still developing. Itâs only when cataclysm hit that it became a complete narrative ****show. The Western Horde and the Eastern Horde should remain distinct cultural entities, but it still needs to make sense why they would even work together.
To put it simply, The Forsaken begin as little better than the Scourge. As the story goes on, they should become anti-villains, like the Blood Elves were initially supposed to be. This will help The Hordeâs narrative feel less scattershot and inconsistent. It will allow the Forsaken to remain âbad guysâ without them being completely irredeemable, and without making Cairne look like an idiot for trusting them.
Speaking of Blood ElvesâŚ
Kaelâthas and The Burning Crusade
Years later, after Azerothâs first victory against the Scourge in Naxxramas, portals begin opening up in the Undercity, bypassing the wards meant to keep enemies out. Varimathras and his Deathstalkers assemble their forces, prepared to butcher whatever comes through these portals.
To their surprise, The Sun-King himself emerges from a tear in reality, and a legion of demonically-charged Blood Elves follow behind him. They call themselves the Sunfury: an army of spellbreakers, sorcerers, warlocks, and demon hunters. For years, theyâve been stealing arcane energy from worlds across the universe, and siphoning it back to the civilians in Quelâthalas as they rebuild their fallen nation. They bow before Varimathras and the Banshee-Queen.
They come bearing gifts: magical artifacts from across the cosmos, trophies from their raids against the Legion, and Titan artifacts from forgotten worlds.
But they havenât come simply to lavish praise on the Queen and her new Kingdom. They come to spread the word of The Master: Shanâdo Illidan Stormrage. Rogue Demon, Master of Magic, Deceiver of the Legion, Herald of the New Order.
King Kael tells the Queen that Quelâthalas is being rebuilt, for the time to reclaim Azeroth is near. All will be liberated through the power of the Arcane, and the mortals of the cosmos shall rise above the gods and demons that pull their strings.
(fun-fact: in the RPG the Forsaken had two religions: the Cult of the Forgotten Shadow, and the Echo of Life. The latter is an ideology built around arcane mastery. Adherents to the cult believe that Arcane magic is the only thing that makes them feel âaliveâ anymore, and they seek to explore the limits of magic and how it can improve their condition. So, many Forsaken already share a similar ideology as Illidan.)
But the Sun-King hasnât simply come to give Sylvanas the good news. Despite their newfound power, the Blood Elves are still small in number, and Master Illidan must focus all his efforts on the coming war with the Legion on Outland. Not to mention, the Fel Horde is growing out of control, and Illidan has his hands full keeping Kargath in line. Worse yet, a group of rebels known as The Scryers have defected to the Naaru, and theyâve been sending spies and agitators to spark dissent in Silvermoon. Half their Blood Knights have already sworn fealty to the Scryers, including the Blood Matron herself, Lady Liadrin. Civil war is coming to Quelâthalas for the first time in history.
Meanwhile, The Scourge is preparing a new assault upon Quelâthalas, as the fallen cities of Stratholme and Deatholme join forces to exterminate the elves once and for all. Thus, Kaelâthas comes to Sylvanas with an offer: help his people join the Horde, and together they will reclaim Lordaeron.
Worst of all, the forces of The Great Leader (Zulâjin) are rising once more, as the Amani prepare ancient voodoo to wipe out the Scourge, the Blood Elves, and the Forsaken, to reclaim Lordaeron for themselves. The only ones who have a chance of staying his hand are the Horde, in particular the Darkspear and Revantusk tribes.
Sylvanas, wary of their insane beliefs, still feels a kinship with the elves. Perhaps she also remembers when her own people were lost and desperate for aid, and Cairne offered his hand in friendship. Varimathras, on the other hand, is eager to earn the support of the Illidari. As a fellow renegade of the Legion, he sees Illidan as a new path forward for demons who refuse to serve the ancient Legion Lords.
And thus, the Eastern Horde is born: a coalition between the Forsaken Empire, and the reborn Kingdom of Quelâthalas. Two species cursed and corrupted by magic, carving out a new future for themselves, slaughtering anyone who stands in their way.
She came back as lightforged undead and was offered a place of leadership among the Forsaken which is just the first step to pull their teeth and make them peace loving similar to modern Tauren and Orcs.
Apparently according to the novel the implication is that she COULD have just been resurrected as her living self, but she chose to become a light-based undead so she could understand her people better.
I mean thats what Blizzard might having to do since Calia could only side with the Alliance by literally turning traitor on the HordeâŚand something tells me she isnât going to willingly put the sword to the Alliance unless they hahahaâŚbe the aggressors for once which Blizzard is incapable of writing.
Well, its a good thing Blizzard realizes how unpopular the faction conflict storylines are, and weâre hopefully never going to have to deal with another one ever again.
The last undead leader died three times and had most of the community turn from liking to hating her, and yet Blizzard still kept her alive and kicking.
These two clauses donât make sense in the same sentence. Calia, as a concept, is a failure that doesnât survive the first layer of scrutiny. Even her character synopsis falls apart the moment you think about it for a few seconds.
And here lies the problem. Calia was free to do whatever she wanted. She is a priviliged princess with many allies whos right to be alive is never questioned. But the Forsaken didnât have the choice. They were forced into undeath by the lich king and did many terrible things while under his influence. Everything they have now was taken by force from their enemies who want them dead, including the entire alliance. There is no universe where Calia becoming one of their leaders would be making any sense. Her concept is a failure and should not be further explored and I pray that the Forsaken heritage quest will focus on Sylvanas alone since she is the reason the playable undead are a thriving faction powerful enough to take all of Lordaeron.