Speak of which, why don’t you log on your Forsaken that you are active with instead of your blood elf and post since you want to talk about the Forsaken community?
Now this we can agree on.
Let’s just hope Blizzard doesn’t turn them into generic villains, or worse, generic humans with a skin-condition.
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The 9.2.5 marked a radical tone and change in the story of the Forsaken I and many others have been waiting for…for years.
The Forsaken deserve to be more than Blight throwing goons. Using the history of Lordaeron as a fallen Kingdom sets the stage for grand geopolitical games that would have never of existed with them used as blight throwing goons that exists to prop up Sylvanas as a fanservice.
Sylvanas has not lead the Forsaken IRL since 2019. The story is moving on, and its moving in the logical manner.
Need people also be reminded…play W3, Sylvanas ended up leading the Forsaken because she effectively was in the right place, at the right time, to seize control. There is ample reason why in canon many Forsaken would still feel loyal to their Kingdoms, family, and homes…as it was plainly talked about in the book ‘Before The Storm’.
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9.2.5 was great cause they listen to fans and made it not a 100% calia glorifying questline, unfortunately she still needed to be included
I have. And this wasn’t how I interpreted things at all until Blizzard retconned it that way.
Sylvanas could have gone in so many different directions, especially regarding her relationship with and motivation for leading the Forsaken.
“We are the Forsaken. We shall find out own path in this world, dreadlord…and slaughter anyone who stands in our way”.
This vision of a banshee and a renegade demon ruling over a rebel alliance of free-willed zombies was a fascinating idea.
And look what they ended up doing to it.
To be clear, I do agree with you on the whole.
My undead priest lvl 50 is on a german Server. I am too lazy to level up with a new one here.
Also, as far back as Cata in canon lore Blizzard has called the Forsaken ‘Lordaeorn’s Undead Army’.
Source: https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com/en-us/story/short-story/leader-story/sylvanas-windrunner
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She is a member of the Desolate Council and is ultimately a member of the Forsaken. Even if she’s not beloved by everyone, she has Forsaken who like her. Like, Parqual Fintallas hoped Calia would do more during the whole Living/Forsaken gathering, I doubt he’s alone in those feelings, a vast majority of Forsaken are of Lordaeron. Plus a member of the Forsaken’s governing body being assassinated is going to cause issues even outside of that.
Not to mention she’s literally the best stop to “The Alliance should reclaim Lordaeron as (living) Human land” while also having zero aspirations for the Throne herself, something she’s literally said to Anduin privately. Whether you like her or not doesn’t change the fact that she cares about the Forsaken as people of Lordaeron altruistically to the point of defecting and her death just causing no issues whatsoever is more fanfic than the writing of how she’s been.
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Here’s where I disagree:
You’re bringing up a lot of things Blizzard wrote to try and justify a stupid storytelling decision.
Anything can be justified in-universe if you want to. But that doesn’t change bad writing.
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Anduin already offered her to wage war on the Horde so she get her crown back as queen. The Forsaken have no reason to trust her. All she represents is the part of the Alliance who was always admant about reclaiming Lordaeron for the living humans. She is not the solution of the problem but the main reason for the problem. Any undead fan with self respect should hate her and try to get rid of her. She is just another Golden self insert.
It’s the writing. I mean, come on is it really so far fetched to imagine a lot of Forsaken, many of which are people who literally were citizens of Lordaeron, have zero sense of loyalty or care about their royal family? She chose to be undead and share their plight instead of resurrecting as a normal living person and doesn’t want to swoop in as Banshee Queen 2.0, I think if I were Forsaken she’d have my support.
Erevien, my jingoistic fellow, she’s undead now and has stated several times she has no intentions for the throne. If Anduin is willing to fight the Horde so she could claim the throne, he’s too much of a pure-hearted type to suddenly change his mind if she decides it’s to stay with the throne. Getting rid of her is basically begging for the Alliance to come stomping in to claim Lordaeron from its peoples, you don’t want the Horde to get stomped more, do you?
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She is lightforged. All her friends love her and nobody ever hated her for what she has become. She shares nothing with the other Forsaken. Allowing her to be part of the Government just cements her existence to be used as device for any plot where Turalyon comes in to give Lordaeron back to the menethil line.
Yes. They shouldn’t. They are undead now. Not living Lordaeronians. Their new faction is diverse and gathers folks from all over the continent. The Menethil line is gone for good. Sylvanas gave them a future whereas Calia is stuck in the past.
I’m just confused as to why they felt the need to immediately substitute Sylvanas with a Light-forged thematically inverted understudy.
She’s the last of the Menethil line, why not raise her to proper undeath as a forsaken. Or one better, contrive a new forsaken character to lead The Forsaken. So they can have actual lore aside from carrying the train of Sylvanas’s gown.
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Again, you’re approaching this from a different angle than I am.
I am not saying it’s unrealistic based on the parameters Blizzard set within their own story. I’m saying the story they are trying to tell, in this instance, is a bad one, resting on a bad character that causes narrative discord with one of the playable races in the setting.
Stories need to do more than just make logical sense. That’s the absolute bare minimum for good storytelling. There’s more to it than that.
Exactly. It’s bad storytelling.
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Spoken like a true alliance shill.
She’s undead, some weird light empowered undead, but as Margrave Sin’dane said, Necromancy is Necromancy. Felfire is still burns, so does elemental fire, so does the Light. It’s not like Light is in pure antagonism to death according to the cosmology chart, it’s just useful against undead.
And again, she’s got no interest in the throne, if you want a proper defense against any claims to the land on a legal standpoint, it’s Calia saying it belongs to the Forsaken.
Alright, well let’s ignore the current and recent writing here, assuming the whole Sylvanas Shadowlands plot still happens, what do you want with the Forsaken?
Personally, I think she’s an attempt to further diversify the Forsaken beyond just being Sylvanas’s backdrops. That’s the whole point of the council and the Forsaken arguably, they were a lot of different people in life, many of which might still have connections to the Light and characters like Calia and Alonsus Faol represent that, unless if you’re a hardliner “Undead can never use the Light, non-Shadow Priest undead are simply a gameplay convenience”.
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I could give you a multi-page essay on this, and you may or may not agree with every single suggestion I have.
But here’s the fun bit: I’m not getting paid to do Blizzard’s job for them. This is literally their job to tell a story that doesn’t feel like 3rd rate fanfic I would’ve written in middle school, with ridiculous characters spouting vapid dialogue, with no desire to develop a deeper, more intriguing culture to the incredibly unique faction they spent years running into the ground.
None of this is impossible to do. It’s literally one of the basic features of a role-playing game. Even other MMOs tell their stories better than Blizzard does lately, and those other MMOs typically don’t have years of incredible worldbuilding to build off of.
Yes, and it’s an incredibly stupid way of doing that.
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By that logic any new character is invalid because they don’t influence anything until Blizzard decides to push them.
You realize that is a nonsensical line of reasoning, right?
She was built up to be a contributing member of the Horde in BfA, aiding the faction in the base expansion and playing a role in every patch of it. She may not be a longstanding member, but she proved her loyalty.
Timelines.
Pretty important things, y’know?
Gilneas as the Worgen starting zone chronologically takes place PRIOR to the Horde player questing in Silverpine Forest. Meaning Ivar’s occupation of “Forsaken land” (along with the Worgen even being in the Alliance) is a result of direct retaliation for the Forsaken’s attack in Gilneas.
Again, you provided literally no evidence for her being an Alliance plant other than her wanting peace and to give Genn Gilneas back.
You could she is sympathetic to the Alliance and you would have an argument, but until you provide ACTUAL evidence for her being on Anduin’s payroll, your claims are nothing more than your theory.
With all due respect, that argument is absolute garbage on so many levels.
Aside from being a morally trash argument, I’m not convinced that you hold that standard in both regards.
After all, with how much you complain about the Alliance getting literally anything, you likely would be complaining about it and not be holding that same standard to the Alliance’s conquests.
Oh hey look, its the hypocrisy I predicted.
As you said:
C’mon, at least try to not immediately contradict yourself.
No, if you recall, the warmongering Sylvanas is the one who told her people to roll over and die in a war that was literally meant to funnel as many souls as possible into the Maw.
Having peace does the literal opposite of that.
1, Reading comprehension, I said “Undercity’s surface”.
2. Neither is Darnassus, be glad Blizz gave you that much.
So let me get this straight, you get the top half of Undercity and all of Brill back, yet you accuse the Alliance of getting a “five course meal” when they lost not just their city but their ENTIRE STARTING ZONE and it’s been a whole year since Undercity started getting cleaned up.
To make the loss of Teldrassil even worse for Alliance players, it wasn’t just the home of the Night Elves but also the home of the Gilnean refugees (the ones that were refugees because Sylvanas took their home), meaning this kicked down the Night Elfs and kicked Worgen down AGAIN.
But, sure. The city portion not being fixed it TOTALLY on par with that.
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It doesn’t matter what Calia says her intention is. Her even being in the lore is all the MHP crowd needs to continue pushing their claim because we know she had children with a random soldier. Like the Scarlet Brotherhood is doing.
I’m not asking you to do Blizzard’s job, I’m asking for your genuine good faith opinion on it. C’mon, just write a little, it’s fun, it’s half of what people do on this forum. You’re willing to tell me why it’s a bad idea, I just want to know what you’d think is a good idea.
Honestly, for all its bumps, I think the writing is more enjoyable than it’s main competitor FFXIV from my personal experience with both.
She stated it in private with Anduin she has no interest. She’s apart of the Forsaken now, those MHP you’re complaining about are probably seething she didn’t lead a glorious crusade. She’s never made mention of a random kid either, just her daughter, who she wonders is undead currently, not a boy with the Scarlet Brotherhood.
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