You have literally asked me why I’m bullying you and if I want you to disappear.
I’m glad you figured yourself out through this weird, soul searching exchange but pls don’t start acting like I ever did anything other than talk about WoW lore which you have sperged over for hours.
Edit: I’m being brash now because this is ridiculous and I would like for you to cease pinging me telling me that you are still upset because people have different opinions.
I had no problem with Sylvanas til she burned Teldressil and the guild I was in at the time, was laughing and making jokes about it.
So u see. It wasn’t because of Horde that made me hate her, It was Alliance players.
Also, I see the point that one person made about the Forsaken. I get what u r saying, mon.
Point is, what think we would do in a given situation, doesn’t always happen. It is when we do finally experience it, that we begin to realize and understand, that views and ideas change, when u are in a bad situation.
Example: When I first found myself homeless(which most are terrified of), I adapted out of necessity. It wasn’t till 3 years later, when I was bedding down for the night(in an empty parking lot) that I looked back at what I went through the past 3 years and realized I didn’t want to be homeless for the rest of my life. I sat down and just started bawling my eyes out. And then a few days later, talked to some other homeless people.
Short story is: I got my but in gear and did something to get myself out of that situation.
I hope u guys got the jist of what I am saying here.
You mention setbacks, but she has yet to really lose. When her setbacks are more or less inconsequential to her larger plan, they’re not really setbacks.
So she gets killed in Silverpine-- then she is immediately brought back and still has val’kyr to spare in case it happens again, and the one responsible is killed permanently.
So one of her val’kyr gets killed in Darkshore-- but the goal of raising nelves and making them join her to fight their own kind succeeds (and it is later revealed she can likely get more val’kyr or equivalents from the Shadowlands, making Brynja’s defeat moot).
So Saurfang turns the Horde against her (or more accurately, gets her to turn the Horde against her), but she embraces it and just zoops away without consequence. As a Sylvanas Loyalist, she tells you that this changes nothing and the Horde as a whole is no longer needed for her ever-nebulous plans.
She’s always got another card to play, and always keeps coming back, just as successful as before with even more power at every step. She has never had a “NO, THIS CANNOT BE” moment, and I’m not gonna hold my breath for that to happen, as many people forecast that Shadowlands will just be Sylvanas proving she was right all along and blah blah blah.
Most people on the forums can’t produce a coherent sentence but want to trash on Sylvanas for “bad writing”.
Just say you don’t like the character. Quit making stuff up.
Nobody expects a mmorpg expansion to have an amazing story. Honestly we get better than we deserve.
Nope, because she’s evil and a Mary Sue.
Yes, I also do not like Slyvanas. That kinda comes obivously, pretty stupid comment if you think people are pretending thhey don’t and making things up.
I don’t disagree, mainly because Sylvanas has ridiculous amount of plot armor and sugar daddy magic powers.
Jaina’s pretty OP, but considering the cast of characters she’s surrounded by, I think she’s just trying to keep par with others more than anything.
I think at this point you guys are just trying to be hipsters.
I get it you don’t like the character, you dont have to. Its just sad watching what I assume are mostly “adults” crying over what a villain did in a video game.
Get used to threads like this. The reaction some of you make to such a small thing is whats breeds them.
Look, i understand… In your favor this is the last time i’ll respond to you. But you are still not getting what i’m saying.
I did not say you want me to disappear, i asked if that’s what you want, why? Because when i said i don’t agree with Anduin being a “Mary Sue” you said to me that i’m wrong and i need to understand why i’m wrong.
That’s not opinion, that’s telling me i’m wrong, and you insisted on that point through all your responses. I have nothing against you, i am making my point; my personal, different and unpopular opinion.
You took my views as complaining and ranting, and not at one point i did that, unless you take personally when someone disagrees with you.
So, well, if after all this you still insist i’m being childish, ranting and trying to somehow get sympathy or pity from a forum full of unkown people, then i’m sorry to disappoint you.
Otherwise you just come as trying to make me mad for the laughs, wich is why i take a lot of things here to me as trolling.
In your favor i agree this is ridiculous now, and i’m not “pinging” you, i’m responding to you. But again, no matter what you assume about my stance and comments i promise i won’t “ping” you again if that makes you happy.
gotta have that last word, i see. 
This is the part that’s ridiculous. You said Anduin was not a Mary Sue, I said I don’t like him and politely explained why.
Ever since then, you have continued to moan and complain that people are bullying you because they have responded to your opinion with their opinions, and why they hold those opinions.
If you get upset when people respond to your opinions with their opinions in a discussion thread, you are setting yourself up for a bad time.
I don’t know why I’ve bothered explaining this to you a fourth or fifth time now.
please. tyrande could take that overgrown canker sore any day
Lol you need to look up “overused characters”, it’s tiresome when one character becomes OP, shows up in everything, and is practically a god amongst mortals. She isn’t the main character of WoW.
I’m going to bring up another major villain that suffers defeats, but rarely, in his long history in comics, has truly been made to lose, as you put it.
Doctor Doom.
Let’s look at his specs, shall we? Brilliant scientist. Not Reed Richards, but he can hold his own with the other scientific heavyweights in the Marvel Universe. He’s also a master magician. In fact, the only reason he isn’t Sorcerer Supreme is because Stephen Strange is the only guy with more mojo than him. If that wasn’t enough, he’s literally stolen power from cosmic level entities before, and even made himself a god temporarily. Oh, and no matter what happens, he literally cannot be sent to prison, because he has diplomatic immunity as a head of state, since he runs his own country. SHIELD and the Avengers can’t even touch him without setting off all kinds of diplomatic issues.
Hell, he’s even the PROTOTYPE for the ‘even defeat advances another of his plans’ idea, and half of the time his worst defeats come at the hands of cosmic level shenanigans, or because it was actually a robot all along, and the real Doom was somewhere else the whole time.
And he is widely regarded as one of the premier villains of the Marvel Universe.
Now, let’s look at Sylvanas. She’s had more defeats than the ones you listed, of course, but I think you’re mistaking the difference between tactical and strategic defeats. It is possible, after all, to suffer a tactical defeat, but parlay that into a strategic victory. Hell, people do it in Real Life all the time. The Bombing of Pearl Harbor, for instance, was a tactical defeat for the United States, but brought about strategic victory, due to how it united people against Japan (and, by extension, the Axis). There are politicians who suffer a defeat when a bill they sponsor fails, but they’ve still achieved their goals of forcing their party to one side or the other. And so on.
However, those defeats aren’t taken in a vacuum. Do you think that the Horde rebels or the Alliance would have been able to patch together that force to march on Orgrimmar without those defeats buoying their cause? Do you think that Tyrande and the Night Elves would have won Dark Shore if Sylvanas had executed Malfurion personally, instead of giving the job to Saurfang? Do you think the Alliance would have been in a position to resist if Anduin and Genn and other alliance leaders were wiped out by the blight at Undercity before Jaina could Deus ex Machina them out of danger?
You say that the defeats don’t matter, but you’re only looking at a narrow slice of the picture. Those defeats mattered because it showed her opposition that she could be defeated. And it kept that whole ‘hope’ thing alive.
Just because someone hasn’t come to the end of their story doesn’t mean they haven’t been defeated, or that the defeats don’t matter.
he is 19 /10char
Playing this game makes it a hell of a lot easier to give WoW up after all these years.
The Shadowlands cinematic trailer is the single most disliked Expansion cinematic in WoW’s entire history in a shorter span of time, not by ratio but just the number of dislikes alone.
That should set the tone of this conversation.
First of all if you make a claim, it’s not incumbent on everyone reading it to do the research. Its incumbent on you to provide the citation as you’re the one presenting the information.
Secondly, it has nothing to do with her popularity and no, I don’t think shes that popular. How do we gauge that? Anecdotally I don’t know a single person who likes her. I’ve encountered very little amount of people who do like her. Most of the Pro-Sylvanas threads do get a lot of likes, but are downvoted the WoW GD way, one of the first replies negating the post getting even more likes. Also more anti-Sylvanas threads get more likes and are more popular. So what are we gauging this off of? What data or proof does anyone have anyways? I’d say from Reddit, GD, in game chat it’s always that Sylvanas is hated more than liked. Anecdotal but what other way of accurately collecting this is there? Sure she has fans. They’re numerous.
That’s an opinion and very subjective. Arguments from authority are irrelevant for the most part as well.
Her fans act like shes a hero or anti-hero while shes being written like a villain who gets away with her scheme. That makes sense. Anti-heroes don’t always win either.
Could you imagine a movie where a character has sad feelings and then goes on a journey where her plan is flawlessly carried out with no challenges at all. After the Maw, her story turned into some kind of flawless heroine where nothing goes wrong.
She defeats every single person. She kills everyone. All of her plans go accordingly. Nothing is wrong with her.
That would be one boring as hell movie, where scene after scene is just a victory dance. Prior to her falling off of Icecrown is interesting for her story. Where she goes through a journey.
Make a movie post-Icecrown and it’s just a weird collection of ultimate wins and never losing once or facing any challenge.
Conflict = interesting. Sylvanas post-Icecrown = no conflict, only flawless victories and hurting other people, antagonizing them.
That makes sense for a villain. Not a protagonist. She’s an antagonist to us as players. She’s a flawless character.
No one said it’s bad. If shes a villain it’s actually cool. If she’s a protagonist she’s a flawless heroine then post-Icecrown.
What? So you collected accurate data and information on everyone who simply uses text to convey their points of view. Text chat and writing doesn’t efficiently reflect a person’s emotional state of being or attitude. There is context and the fact that words can be interpreted.
You can’t determine how a person feels just because you have an opinion of what they say online.
If she’s an antagonist then it makes sense and it’s cool for her to defeat Bolvar. Bolvar is a protagonist inside Shadowlands. So we’re going to see that unfold.
Sylvanas is an antagonist. Not protagonist.
I actually think she’s cool that way, as a villain.
She’s always been a very powerful mage. Where is this conflicted otherwise?
WHAT? Wait WHAT? Do you know nothing about the lore? lmao
The Zandalari Empire is surely one of the oldest but not the mightiest anymore. They lost their land starting thousands upon thousands of years ago when the world was split into the current continents.
The Kaldorei Empire only grew each time it consumed an inch of Troll land. The entire height of the Kaldorei Empire was built off of the downfall of the Trolls, Zandalari included.
Ever since it’s been a downward spiral for the Zandalari.
Even during the Cataclysm we learned that the Zandalari even lost MORE of their power. We defeated a lot of their armies strength in Pandaria.
What we have in BFA is a weak force. That can easily be rivaled by the Alliance. Without the help of the Horde, the Alliance can effortlessly defeat the Zandalari.
The Siege of Dazar’alor was successful and that was WITH the Horde helping. Imagine if the Horde weren’t there to help. It would’ve been dramatically easier.
Any character is powerful. All of the faction leaders and faction characters could make for similar raid bosses.
Can I have your stuff?
I have a couple of problems with your post.
Literally no one? Absurd on the face of it. And upon what do you base legitimacy? Disagree with someone’s opinion if you like, but your disagreement does not give you the right to declare if a critique is valid or not.
Your opinion, to which you are entitled. As is my opinion that you’re “unfit” to decide the fitness of other players.
You made some valid points. But I think they get lost when you pepper those assertions with hostility and judgement. In other words, I think you need to learn what a proper critique is. It is certainly not meant to be used to attack differing opinions.
I don’t have any stuff.
give me all your stuff in FF. :>