do you have any undead characters? have you ever rped as one? how well do you know forsaken lore? do you know what their religion is? have you gone into org as a loyalist? “for the dark lady, always”
You can’t blame Midare or others like them. I remember reading the story of how Metzen couldn’t get the other writers to understand the Forsaken were NOT the Scourge because undead = evil amirite?
Metzen had a view on the Forsaken. They had the full range of possibilities as a human would. They could be a warlock or a paladin (in terms of personality).
Oh, I honestly don’t love her anymore. Even prior to the debacle that was bfa I had a lot of moments when she made me go “uh… ok…?”.
And then as warchief, again, we had someone that only is actually fighting the Alliance but because some “dark higher power” it’s pulling the strings and in a very basic, almost comically bad manner too.
She’s far from being fixable at this point.
But yes, there is a level of hypocrisy because, not only with with Tyrande, but you don’t see that with people defending Jaina either.
And to survive. But yes, Arthas was huge in the picture, which is why I still thing that they drove both her and the Forsaken into a wall with wotlk.
Sure, Arthas was going to die eventually, but it only showed how poorly they planned things because after the “uh, what now?” point, everything started falling apart.
Which is why for me, there’s a clear disctintion between pre cata Forsaken and post cata Forsaken.
No, I mentioned that they didn’t care that they were tools. It’s different.
Except that they show that they do it because they want to have a purpose… that’s the whole point.
I do not personally play Forsaken, mostly due to personal bias, in which I find undead disgusting OOC, and don’t play it.
However, they were once a race that actually had problems, and were presented in such a way that I didn’t immediately outright hate them (Unlike other settings like D&D and such)
I have looked into the lore. And sure, -some- forsaken might be to the death loyalists, but that is not all of the forsaken.
Just like some humans can be complete and utter pieces of garbage, but that doesn’t mean all humans are.
THIS! is what players need to consider when the devs are writing. Those devs either assume u already know the lore OR they are playing on the fact that u don’t know the lore.
It might have given -some- of them purpose, but to assume it gave them -all- purpose is you just putting your own little narratives forward and making the forsaken a monolith.
If you wanna keep your view for the forsaken, have at it, I’m not trying to change your mind.
I personally think your view of them is pretty ridiculous though.
Yeah, that was kind of the whole point, different people (the gloomy types, the dark humor types, the pragmatic types) all following the one that freed them for the sake of a purpose for their undeath, essentially a meaningless existance.
The Forsaken are better off as an allied Scourge. I agree with you 100%. The only issue is why in the wooooorrrrlllld are Blood Elves fighting alongside them?
Frankly, the Forsaken need to be their own faction.
Absolutely. You don’t need to look beyond Season Eight to know that they weren’t fit to even polish GRR’s narratives let alone take on moving GoT forward without him.
Because despite their differences, the presence of the Forsaken (pre cata, I tend to get stuck in that point in time with them) they were also a way to show that the Horde accepted all if their goal was to survive, which is why the tauren, trolls and blood elves joined.
Great, none of this detracts form the original point I made, that Sylvanas literally didn’t care about them, and used them as meat shields for her own goals, and with her out of the picture, maybe someone whom actually cares for the ideals originally set up by forsaken to give their own lives purpose and meaning, while also not just treating them as literaly garbage / meat shields like both sylvanas and garrosh did.
Maybe they can recreate the desolate council, and actually reorganize and try t ofigure things out.
Maybe a well known forsaken / undead will take over leadership, and we might see the forsaken actually progress as a race instead of feeling stagnate and one dimensional, in all but niche little circumstances.
sylvanas was -not- good to the Forsaken, and she only hindered their development as a faction / characters.
I can appreciate that actually. If people were fine with the Horde being “the bad guys”, I’d be even happier. I guess I’ve just come to accept that they aren’t taking the story in that direction.
There’s a reason why Forsaken used to (or still do, I’m not sure) start off as neutral with every other race but the Blood elves, they were always the ones that stood out the most, and by far the most pragmatic.
And that’s not even relevant because whether she cared or not it’s absolutely irrelevant for the Forsaken, they had a purpose, it’s party time.
However, here you’re being downright hyperbolic. One doesn’t treat an important shield as garbage. Just because they were tool, that doesn’t mean she treated them badly, one doesn’t automatically translates into the other.
One with people from the Forsaken and not certain outsiders, sure.
Again, I don’t know if I can trust what you would take as “progress” for them all things considered.
From our previous exchanges, that wouldn’t be progress, it would be a watering down.
She gave them purpose, for the Forsaken, that’s more than they could have asked for. What you consider good by other race’s standards doesn’t work for them.
i think the problem is that she doesn’t understand forsaken culture or why they do what they do. and she sees anything that is pro-sylvie has some sort of scourge-lite thing not understanding that rallying behind sylvie is really the one thing that gave them hope. it seems very black and white with her not understanding that most of it is neither.
Sure, some people are gullible enough to think being used gives purpose to their lives, but that’s an utter stagnation of the Forsaken as a whole.
And the fact you’d fight to keep it that was is absurd.
The Forsaken are Stagnant, they are accomplishing nothing but being murdered.
And if they just blindly follow this “Purpose” you suggest Sylvanas gave them, they will literally end up worse off than they currently are.
If you enjoy stagnant story telling, that never changes, and only gets worse and more cliche as time goes on, I guess enjoy yourself. I personally enjoy stories that move forward, and I enjoy seeing -actual- character development, not BS pulled straight out of the nether to justify things.
It’s really hard to actually believe you “Love” the forsaken so much, if your so complacent with them being terrible, having zero growth, and accomplishing nothing.
the tauren were nearly all killed off by level 12 centaurs but you don’t see any of us trolling you about that and how that reflects on your choice of character and why you like them or not. you’re literally attacking something she obviously cares about and you see nothing wrong with this?
for better or worse she also just ripped the helm in half and said “i’ll set us all free.” so whatever they’re about to do will probably have something to do with how she’s the good guy and has been 4d chessing for years and she cares about everyone and that only she can save us. >_>
