Ah, got it. It was your reference to her being “Kul Tiran/Dalarani” that was confusing me.
(What’s the adjective for Theramore, anyway? Theramorean? Theramese? Therawegian?)
Sorry, missed this homie.
Sylvanas was pointedly trying to murder everyone. The Horde had a prophesy specifically about her betraying and murdering them, and that makes this pointedly worse for the Horde player than the Alliance because they are fingerwagged for being evil and doing Sylvanas stuff whilst also being forced to fall for Sylvanas’s tricks.
I told you to read, not strawman.
I never mentioned the Orgrimmar cinematic.
Thank.
This was indeed from a Sylvanas loyalist ending questline:
- The war has proven costly and our ranks have been steadily depleted. But the Horde is nothing if not strong. Each and every citizen of Orgrimmar is worth ten Alliance weaklings on the battlefield. Rally the citizens and form a militia! Remind them of their slain brothers and sisters!
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That didn’t really seem to translate into the exploring Kalimdor book
After the Fourth War, Zekhan and Rexxar visited the area. Except for some wildlife, they found that little life remained in the mists of Darkshore; birdsong gone, chased off by the wails of those unwilling to pass on.[15] Ameth’Aran and Bashal’Aran remain ruined, but the Grove of the Ancients and Shatterspear Vale are still active.
Thank, was going off of second hand information, I never worked with Sylvanno whence I had the option not to.
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Zekhan contradicts himself in his description of Darkshore:
Zekhan mentions the squirrels and moonstalkers still living in Darkshore. What is most consistent is that the wildlife is being silent in the darkness, rather than actually missing. The book also shows Darkshore rather full of plant life still.
He can say “little life remains” and that there are some silent creatures still living there.
The consistent description of it is that it’s in ruins and seems mostly abandoned, since they can still walk around in it even getting up to Teldrassil because the sentinels are “elsewhere” and they talk about how there are pretty much no patrols there anymore. They could have added descriptions about the druids regrowing it or whatever, but they chose not to have anything like that and just call it an “empty victory”.
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The Army of the Black Moon are likely the forces that have pushed the Horde mostly out of Ashenvale, in the book having taken Mor’shan Ramparts and besieging Splintertree Post and pushing the Horde at Orgrimmar’s back gate at Valormok in Azshara from with the Night Elves maintaining Talrendis Point.
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Warsong is still in operation, as is Splintertree, that was besieged anyway in cata but nothing happened. I wonder why they say “Alliance forces” captured Mor’shan when they specify the sentinels are besieging Splintertree, the sentinels might not have done anything at Mor’shan. The horde isn’t mostly pushed out of Ashenvale, they don’t even talk about Zoramgar which was active on the mission table, or Hellscream’s watch which is right above Astranaar.
I would not look at the Kalimdor book too closely. The guy described Ashenvale as it was as during the cataclysm. Blizzard’s warcraft lore expert probably got on a character and flew around ashenvale for 15 minutes before opening up Microsoft word and typing away.
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Hellscream’s Watch was likely removed after the Siege of Orgrimmar, as A Good War mentions that Horde abandoned its bases in Ashenvale after it, returning to their ruins in the novel.
The Exploring Kalimdor book does mention the Night Elves having a new base at Zoram Strand, which makes sense, given Tyrande decimated the Horde forces a Zoram Strand in game and the Alliance player cleaned up the remainders left behind.
I would not be surprised if Blood Elf players still see Night Elves in the Ghostlands in their upcoming exclusive quest in 9.2.5.
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They also said the legion invaded through the dark portal in the WotA. Of course the author is incompetent even as a “lore historian”, but there are certain ideas they want to get across as they try to present updated information about the zones essentially just returning to the status quo. But it’s the same idea as trying to find contradictions in how Zekhan describes things, they want to just get a certain idea across as in darkshore is in ruins and mostly abandoned.
Does it actually say they abandoned all their bases? I was trying too find things because I keep running into arguments of “no the horde wasn’t out of Ashenvale after MoP!” and I thought it was just them running into the ruins of specifically Zoram’gar which was used again in the mission tabled after the horde took ashenvale in the wot.
I don’t think it’s a new base, I think he mentioned seeing patrols from Blackfathom Camp trying to enter blackfathom deeps. It existed before as some tents and a few night elves so he’s again probably referencing what he sees there.
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From A Good War:
- A few years ago, Mor’shan Rampart had been the bulwark against the night elves pushing into the Barrens, but it had been abandoned when Garrosh Hellscream had been deposed.
There should have been night elves on those fortifications.
As for the Exploring Kalimdor book, it says:
- In the northwest of Astranaar be the Zoram Strand, with its ancient elven ruins sinking low along the shoreline. There’s a new Alliance camp sitting near the entrance.
No further detail is gone into, however.
You obviously weren’t around for the Mets saga in the 60’s.
I like how they frame it as the night elves being the ones trying to push into the barrens for some reason. But yeah so it was just like Mor’shan and Zoram that were described as being abandoned, with only the assumption the other bases are as well including warsong lumber camp. It wouldn’t make sense for the horde to still be invading after mop, but these arguments usually end up requiring it to be explicitly stated instead of the implication.
Wowpedia describes it as on page 71.
After the Fourth War, Zekhan and Rexxar watched patrols from Blackfathom Camp, seeking to enter Blackfathom Deeps.[2]
Are they just assuming it’s blackfathom camp? I don’t own the book so I just go off what they say on there.
Wowpedia is a fan site, and while it does provide references, it is not a lore source itself. I cited specifically what Exploring Azeroth: Kalimdor said about the camp. The book does mention patrols, though, yes:
- In the northwest of Astranaar be the Zoram Strand, with its ancient elven ruins sinking low along the shoreline. There’s a new Alliance camp sitting near the entrance. Rexxar and I watched the patrols from a distance, waiting for a chance to dip into the ancient ruins undetected. A risk, yeah, but one Rexxar was determined to take. He insisted on seeing with his own eyes that the Twilight’s Hammer cult remained dead.
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Oh yeah and 7-8 foot tall halfogre guy and 6 foot troll guy went unnoticed in a nightelf camp, how impressive the nightelf sentinel are…sarcastic
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Yes, that is why I said I went off that because I don’t own the book. But the base would be about where Blackfathom camp is since it’s near the entrance of Blackfathom deeps, but it’s not closer to Zoram’gar than before.
Yeah, the night elves in Wolfheart were getting outmaneuvered and surprised by orc in ashenvale AT NIGHT, when guerilla warfare is suppose to be their thing. The night elves have been written like garbage for a long time.
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I play a giant green glowing cat somehow stealthing in wide open terrains. After seeing the Forsaken Rogues in the Saurfang and Thrall cinematic it’s all pretty clearly magic.
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Rexxar is supossed to be a hunter and not a rogue or not?
But yeah, magic is most likely the reason