"Why are Night elf Fans so Angry"

Lore Story Forum
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I know, i know, a new thread about night elves but please listen until the end, before you choose to answer. Many players ask themselves, what exactly is the problem of the night elves now, why were they often dissatisfied even before BFA? Yes, they were, but there are reasons, and I think this thread covers the topic very well.

https://twitter.com/WardenRaintree/status/1518565322323898374

For them around you who have no twitter-acc or don´t want to read twitter to know the points of Kyalin, here in Short:

  • Coming off of Cataclysm, Mists of Pandaria continued the faction war, one kicked off by the Horde kicking the Alliance’s butt because certain devs were into that kind of thing

That the Horde had fewer quests than the Alliance is not okay. So a questrebalancing was nessesary. But the way it was done destroyed a lot of the fantasy, especially on the side of the night elves, the night elves couldn’t win and even if they technically won, there was nothing of it ingame, nothing at all, you didn’t see it and the novels didn’t even remotely address it. It was probably not interesting enough for the devs of CATA and MOP. At the time, there was a belief that this would be balanced out in future phased content.

And this reveals a much deeper problem that Blizzard has a massive problem portraying the night elves as winners, it’s enough to portray them as losers ingame and show a small side quest with no real effort as they might just hold something while the destruction of their territories and losses has been celebrated big time, for everyone to see.

Cata and MOP destroyed as much of the night elf fantasy as almost BFA, but many - not night elves - remember just MOP and CATA as good content, it was at the expense of night elf fans, that is what I would agree with. Especcialy the Horde, and would the exact opposite would happened, i´m pretty sure the horde playerbase would hate it aswell…even louder then the night elf fanbase right now is (And they are loud and angry)

The destruction of Darnassus was a long-standing project, originally it was supposed to happen in 5.1, triggered by the Bell, so it wasn’t at all enough that Theramore was destroyed, they already planned the destruction of Darnassus and the Night Elves, as a mere casualty of war, without even thinking that they should get much focus, if you look at the further course of how MOP went on (The same happened in bfa aswell, the night elves were used for other races and characters, again, like in mop and cata to let them shine, on the expense of themselve)

This is 100% a big unforgivable no go, and everyone would be right to be upset about this behavior, but instead, many night elves fans faces laughing or even worse thing, or their points are even dismissed because “They are Op”, They are so strong the only way was to go down" or other points i can´t remember right now.

But if you look back the last 12 Years you will see that the Night elves got no positive developement…for 12 Years. Longer as everyone else, they lost…everytime, even if its supposed to feel different, blizzard turn it in a loose for them…so, this is the reason night elf fans are angry.

This letter is intended to be a bridge of understanding, a contribution that perhaps perceives another side, it is not an attack against the Horde-playerbase. And to simply ignore or even retcon teldrassil after all this would feel like another kick in the face of them…they want to not longer be seen as looser, as weaklings…their race was almost entirely destroyed for the benefit of others…they want a payoff for their “emotional suffering”

Kind regards

Zahir

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'member when Amadis went on record saying he loved playing Cataclysm because it was a giant rush of victories for nelf fans?
I 'member.

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This is NOT true at all, or more precisely only half correct. The bell was suppose to go off and cause chaos/death in Darnassus but it was not suppose to destroy the capital. I recall specifically Ghostcrawler mentioning they had no intention of destorying any faction capital at the time. This was in response to people like myself asking Ogrimmar suffer/get detroyed in retaliation for Theramore.

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ghostcrawler wasn´t the lead during mop anymore. He stepped down before, so what are you talking?

28.nov 2013, this was way before 5.1

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I don’t remember when Amadis was made king of Night Elves.

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The entire Sylvanas/Night Elf spiral has been incredibly stupid. It’s bad enough that Horde had to deal with a crazy written lousy villain that screwed up player stories and background, but the fact that the Alliance and Night Elves have consistently taken it on the chin without any actual recourse has reached ludicrous proportions.

I dunno if it was a case of the Devs hating NE culture, but seriously. Darkshore being blown up in Cata, Teldrassil getting torched, the whole Tyrande/Night Warrior conclusion. It was all super unsatisfying and just left literal ashes behind. I hated the conclusion of Shadowlands watching Tyrande “forgive” Sylvanas by banishing her to the Maw, and knowing ANDUIN is joining her there >.>

Time to allow and show some actual rebuilding

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Siege of Ogrimmar released in Sept 2013. Ghostcrawler was still with Blizzard until Nov 2013 when he left and he was quite active in the Forums during the PTR of Siege/it was a response to why Siege did not have any significant changes to Ogrimmar as a city.

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okay, my fault, i thought he leaved before, i remember siege of orgrimmar in 2014. Hrmm, well, okay, but still. 5.1 would be show and showed the night elves again as incompetent loosers.

and the story was not written from Ghostcrawler.

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Ghostcrawler tweeted about a diverse amount of things which included lore. Especially considering that said lore would impact gameplay and at the time they did not have the tech to destroy any faction city at the time.

Also, if nothing else about Siege it was Tyrande who broke down the gate while giving Vol’jin the stink eye.(her like was like “we are here for Kalimdor and not for you troll”)

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It sounds more like Jaina Proudmoore was in charge of security on the divine bell.

Lady Jaina Proudmoore: I had Darnassus LOCKED DOWN! Every fumbling rogue that tried to sneak into the city, I CAUGHT them! I snatched every two-bit charlatan that attempted to teleport through my traps!

https://warcraft.blizzplanet.com/blog/comments/patch-5-1-operation-shieldwall-the-purge-of-dalaran

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Either way, darnassus was their city. Maybe Jaina was slippy in the preparing of the magical defense but after all…it was night elf territory, they failed to protect their civilians in such a case and were made victims again.

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Why would Night Elf fans feel upset about how kaldorei have been portrayed? We should be thankful that our favorite race has had so much screen time. :unamused:

What people failed to acknowledge is that basically all our screen time has been to further someone else’s story at our expense. Yes we’ve had our moments like Cata but eventhough we reclaimed Ashenvale we never saw it in game or metioned in any outside media. So what we got from Cata was a permanente fire in our sacred forest filled with orc invaders. Cenarius came back only to suddenly love orcs while he and Malfurion turned a blind eye to the desacration of our lands because orcs were good in their hearts.

Myst of Pandaria came and Night Elves traveled there because of a supposed vision about a way to get their immortality back and that was basically a trap and a lie. Our greatest warriors die protecting the Divine Bell secret location only to spoil said location for the horde to hear. It got stolen right from our noses. And to top it all Tyrande was a useless military/spiritual/racial leader that was outsmarted by Varian who had to teach patiente and battle tactics to her.

In Legion Tyrande was used as foil to have Nightbourn go Hord because they were all delicate people who got offended instead of owning their past mistakes. Both Tyrande and Malfurion were quickly taken out of the picture when they should’ve led the attack against the burning legion. Night Elves have had more experience than anyone else on the planet against a foe as dangerous as the BL but Devs tossed them aside. Even in Tomb of Sargeras who was the place Tyrande became a priestess and later named High Priestess, her former mentor Dejhanna was there as well and Tyrande wasn’t deemed important enough to make an appearance.

BfA was such a masterpiece. Teldrassil burned. How writters accomplished that? by removing NE army, and sending Tyrande away. I don’t mind the loss but nothing came from it. Tyrande became a Night Warrior and inmediatly went MIA for the rest of the expansion. Her first act as a NW was to lose against Nathanos even with Malfurion there (amazing first impresion!). So were was Tyrande after that? who knew but nothing could have stopped from going to Storwind to witness Anduin get his new Ship. I guess in the eyes of writters Andui’s new toy is obviously more important and NE lands. We got to go to Nazjatar, one of the most important places in NE past and who was our tour guide? Jaina Proudmore. She had to teach Shandris about the wonders of ancient NE civilization. What a joke. Well that would matter after Tyrande finally confronted her long time nemesis Quenn Azshara… Oh that’s right she never appeared. It was Jaina who took care of her. so, How did that expansion end? With Anduin and Shandris saying Tyrande is crazy and consumed by vengance. Amazing expansion for Night elves. so much that people started claiming NE fatigue :man_facepalming:

At least we got Shadowlands. We were ready to follow Tyrande into the other side of the veil. She jumped to the Maw and went mia for almost a year. She finally appear to face Sylvanas and fulfill the bargain she made with Elune only to have our own goddess deny us the victory. Our Goddess Elune later made to look stupid by sending kaldorei souls to the maw without her knowing and when she found that out she said “Oh, I’m sad”. It was the Winter Queen who took iniciative to form a plan to save all those souls. At the end Tyrande spared Sylvanas’ life because that was Elune’s plan all along so she could attone for her crimes by saving those damned souls by herself, which would take forever and that is the most stupid thing possible because the covenants have full access to the maw and can speed up the process of saving everyone stuck down there.

Everything that happened was for Sylvanas and Sylvanas alone.

So for everyone who calls us delusionals because we complain about our portrayal take a closer look at what joke of a story we’ve had to endure.

*Oppsies… didn’t mean to make a post that long :sweat_smile:

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but its true, i can agree to any point you stated.

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It is true that Night Elves didn’t get the story they deserved. A lot of people didn’t.

And, it should be noted, that now that I play Alliance, I have to say that much of what appears on this forum is an outlier, even among Alliance players.

The problem comes when some began to feel entitled to special treatment. This lead them to dismiss what others suffered to justify that view. Claims that they were the only ones to suffer. Claims that making other players suffer for what they want is justified.

And this also lead to a profound refusal to see other points of view. In this thread we talk about equating the destruction of Orgrimmar (populous and full of civilians) with Theramore (civilians evacuated, also a fort and military target). Claims that Horde players enjoyed the burning of Teldressil. Even people proposing that Horde players working off negative reputations with Alliance as a “solution for everyone”.

And it has lead to, IMO, a dead end. Nursing old grievances will only keep you from ever enjoying the game. Blizzard isn’t going to ever do anything to deliberate makes players unhappy. (All claims to the contrary not withstanding, Blizzard makes money off every player, they want every player to be happy).

As an ex-Horde player, I came to the conclusion that the only story Blizzard had for the Horde was to be villain batted to be foes for the Alliance. But Blizzard is never going to do anything about how the Horde has been ignored, out side of villain batting, for so long. All I really want, to switch back, is for them start writing positive stories that matter in the expansions and start replacing characters they have killed off.

NE fans don’t need lists of grievances and demands that come at the expense of others. Aside from fairness issues, they simply won’t get them. Look to the future as part of a plot that works for everyone. And it needs to be more than “we should win the faction war”. The faction war is not a big enough part of the game to be all that your race is.

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Where in this threat was any of this you claim here? I didn´t write this.

This comes rhich from one who claims to the only thing he/she really want is to switch back …and have positive story on the horde side? i mean, can you not see how ignorant this seems to simply demand “move on”…focus on other stuff?

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I just want to make clear that I would never advocate for “vengace” against the Horde. I do understand that bad writting has affected us all. I know it has to feel horrible to make one the villain in their own story. Everything I listed was negative writting we’ve had but just because I had to suffer it I don’t want the other side to experience that.

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my only comment is that i miss Kyalin.

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I feel the same way. My clumpsy non english speaking brain has a hard time debating. My spanish - english pathway is not fast enough for big conversations :joy:

Kyalin expressed many of my own ideas in a very elocuent way.

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That’s because my post was a general view on this situation, not a direct response to you. It was about “asking Ogrimmar suffer/get detroyed in retaliation for Theramore.” That someone wouldn’t be willing to see that destroying someone capital could seem disproportional compared to Theramore is, IMO, an example of not seeing the other point of view.

Never said the “only thing” I want is to switch back. It would be nice (I still have friends who play Horde), but switching to Alliance has solved enough of the problems I’ve had with the story.

And the idea that the Horde simply having a “positive story” means it has to come at the expense of NE’s or Alliance players is part of the “zero sum game” thinking that has lead to this dumpster fire.

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I know she sometimes says eyebrow raising things, but she did have a talent for putting in words how the NE community feels about the story. Well, the worgen community too, since we share many of the same problems the NE community does.

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