Probably because:
is considered trolling by most sane people.
How do you join/form a group in classic without saying anything?
I’m against LFD that teleports everyone to the dungeon. I’m not against a working LFG tool or dual spec.
That’s not how retail functions though. There are people who sell M+ and Mythic raid runs, but the majority of M+ runs and normal-heroic raid pugs don’t involve gold at all.
The majority of dungeon runs I ran in WoW even before queueable content were like this too. Most people add less than 1% of the people they encounter in WoW to their friends list, even before modern conveniences were added.
People were not the social butterflies some people like to pretend they were. Modern convenience features didn’t kill the social aspects of the game the way purists constantly claim they did. The game was never what they claim it was.
I even pugged a few raids in original TBC and A LOT in WotLK (usually on alts in partial guild groups) though raid pugging wasn’t as nice in oldschool WoW since the per-boss loot lockout system didn’t exist. Only one pug raid I ever did actually resulted in me joining a guild that I raided with for a long time. Occasionally people added me to their flist. 99% of the people I don’t remember.
Our pugs weren’t “GDPK” either. We were just there to do the content and maybe get some gear. Classic being all about gold runs from leveling to raiding pushes it way past anything I ever saw in retail in terms of spending gold to progress.
If the content doesn’t require a super organized and coordinated group, it will be pugged. The fact that most pugs in classic seem to be all about gold makes me wonder which version of the game is really less social and more toxic.
So…which dungeon finder are you talking about? The one that you can set up a group for, or the queue one? Because people seem to not realize that there’s a difference between the two. I’m assuming it’s the listing one where you can accept or deny players into the group.
I see nothing wrong with dual spec. This makes it better for people that want to perform in a role, say tank or healer, and still able to solo/pvp to earn gold or play there preferred playstyle. Original gold cost would be good also. Heck, add in the experience eliminator also, so people can tweak for brackets they want to be in and farm there bis gear for it.
I usually see the term dungeon finder used for the automated queue version, since that’s what it actually is called. You even can open it by typing /df in game I think.
The “pre-made group finder” is just an evolved version of forming groups in chat (and a replacement for addons that did this for years). I think this is already confirmed to be a part of TBC since TBC had one anyway? It’s just a better UI for finding groups, but you still have to manually form them.
The actual TBC version wasn’t that popular because they had addons that did a better job. I’d expect them to just use the modern UI for it since it’s better.
While I personally have no problem with either and think classic purists that rail on about automated queue content don’t know what they’re talking about at all when discussing what “ruined” WoW, I have zero expectation that automatic queueable content will actually be part of TBC classic at any point.
This. Wrath of the lich king was the pinnacle of the classic WoW. Wrath was just fine for well over a year without the the 3.3 random dungeon finder. It would have been just fine if it had never been added.
Based on these facts, the 3.3 random dungeon finder does not need to be added to wrath classic or any version of wow classic.
I think dungeon finder is a bad direction, but then again I used it a lot.
I think the custom group option from retail is better. A single place where people can post what they are doing and find players to help.
I would just say any automation should be limited and just improve the tools.
I think TBC was better game design than WotLK. WotLK had, Imo, better class design. Heroics in WotLK were too easy, I didn’t like the introduction of 4 raid difficulties, and I didn’t like how the new tier invalidated the old one. Once Ulduar came out there was no reason to run Naxx 25 etc.
Putting together dungeon groups in classic to me is part of the fun, it’s not hard to do and I usually am successful anytime I desire to run a dungeon. The benefit to this is that you actually tend to form some bonds with players, and will be able to group with them much more easily in the future, rather than some easy queue system where no one really cares about each other and are disconnected the moment it is done because it is so easy to just hop into another group. It’s all about being sociable, kind, humorous, etc. My strategy for looking for group isn’t to spam in trade or LFG, I find a more personalized approach is much more successful. Plus, forming a group this way makes people open up more, and they play more honorably. You basically build more trust, more banter, and just have a fun and more positive experience overall.
Generally I start my search typing /who, then search for tank and healers in my level range. I then send individual tells to players whose role I’m trying to fill, and I start by saying some form of hello, address them by their name, and simply ask them if they’d be interested in joining the group. Not everyone will obviously, but the chances of them joining are much higher with this personalized approach. On average I can put together a full group in 5-10 minutes, its usually a friendly time and usually friends are added by the end. Dungeon finder basically removes this organic social requirement, and consequentially makes the game noticeably colder, less invested and less connected to each other. It’s more empty, and less fun. I highly recommend try building groups like this, the game is a lot more fun when everybody likes and respects each other. Just my experience.
Do you honestly believe that retail’s system is better than Classic’s?
You hop into a dungeon queue and stand at the mailbox watching Youtube or whatever. 5, 10, 20, 30 min. later, it pops, and you and 4 other random people you’ll never see again are ported to the entrance and off you go, without a word… running full speed through the instance, pulling 2-3 packs at a time and AoEing everything down, because the tank can’t die, nobody can die… you zerg, zerg, zerg, run… if the tank doesn’t go fast enough he gets yelled at, and 15 min. later it’s over, and you may or may not have gotten some personal loot… and then you queue up again to do the same thing all over again, and then again.
It’s just pure trash gaming, IMO. And the first step toward that was LFD in Wrath.
It’s not just the lack of socializing. It’s because, due to the lack of communication and randomness of it all, they had to nerf everything down to where it was a sure clear even for the worst group imaginable. And then they sped it all up so that people could get that boring, empty experience over with as soon as possible and get their chances at loot.
And then they did the same thing to all the raids with LFR. It’s just an abomination, IMO.
And your reasoning - correct me if I’m wrong - is that, because you believe current Classic dungeons aren’t really all that social, either, we should just do away with the social factor altogether and make things like they are in retail? Yuck.
I’ve had some fun dungeonnruns in Classic, sure. However, a good chunk of the runs have been filled with the retail crap you brought up. Rush through, no time to chat… Disrespectful players. Yeah, Classic sure has it’s share.
What kind of dungeon runs happen now?
System for what? 5 mans? Absolutely.
Heroic dungeon queues probably make up a small percentage of the actual 5 man content being run in retail today at max level.
It’s nice that they’re available for the people that want them.
That is how most 5 mans in classic are also. It’s also how most groups in actual vanilla and TBC and WotLK were also. You might speak in chat slightly more often to mention a quest or having to stop to drink or something. Super social! 
Outside of stopping to drink, that is how classic dungeons also are.
They took longer in actual vanilla because we didn’t now where we were going or what the bosses did. You’ll never get that back in any version of Classic.
That’s nice, but you don’t really ever have to do heroic dungeons in retail at all if you don’t want to. You could easily skip right to mythic0 even the first week of a new expansion and never do queued 5 mans.
End of WotLK added dungeon finder. It didn’t affect WotLK dungeon design much at all.
Cata dungeons were viewed as some of the harder heroics we’ve ever had.
In MoP they had challenge modes if you wanted harder 5 man content.
I didn’t play WoD much so I don’t know what that expansion’s 5 mans were like. I believe they also had challenge modes.
Legion added M+ content. Since then there has been 5 man end-game content available that is more challenging than any past expansion’s 5 mannable content (that was true since MoP, though challenge modes were about cosmetics and not an avenue to end-game gear).
So there’s literally been no expansion in the entire history of this game where queueable heroics ruined 5 man content. There has always been challenging 5 man content available (though you eventually out-geared it in Cata and earlier expansions). It only became an end-game gearing option in Legion+. In Legion we had 5 mannable challenging content available even in top-tier gear.
Anyone who thinks dungeon finder ruined 5 mans is delusional. It’s factually and objectively false.
It’s good that LFR is never required and completely skippable if you just want to do the raid on normal, heroic or mythic difficulty.
You’re completely wrong about all of it.
I’m telling you that your basic belief that Classic is a more social game is a completely flawed and false belief entirely.
The idea that the social factors are gone in retail entirely is part of your completely flawed belief system. It’s not reality at all.
The playerbase may have a different mentality now and more people want to pug compared to be in larger guilds than they did back then, but not because you had to be back then, as Classic has proven. The players just don’t do it as much as they used to.
There is more content in retail that requires coordination and communication than in Classic. People still try to pug a lot of it.
If you think LFR and dungeon finder are the primary forms of content in retail, I don’t know what to tell you, but that’s just not how any expansion in the history of the game since WotLK has ever been. Everything you think about retail appears to be bizarre assumptions that have nothing to do with the reality of the game.
I agree with this actually. TBC is likely the best system for raiding out all of the wow. But the lore in wrath was just…wow so epic.
I wonder what the percentages are. 2/3 of the players who buy each retail expansion quit within a couple of months, right? How many of them ever make it past LFD/LFR?
100% of anyone who actually had any intention of doing so.
It’s not a thing you have to do before moving past it.
You can step into mythic 5 man dungeons the first week of any expansion that has had them.
LFR is actually time-gated so if you wanted to do the raid earlier on, you can’t do it in LFR first. It takes several weeks for the LFR wings to even open. By then, the people who actually want to do the raid outside of tourist mode have already done the entire thing on other difficulties.
Dual spec? Not that bad but it wasnt in the game until later. People complaining about respecs costing too much either arent doing their daily quests or they’re spending too much going back/forth every day instead of planning it out. Liiiike “I raid 2 days a week. I will stay pve spec and then go pvp spec for the rest of the week and then swap back.” realistically, you should only be spending 100-150g a week max on respecs unless you do it every day back and forth…
Dungeon finder/raid finder was the death of WoW. Lets not kid ourselves here.
Most people come to Classic to get AWAY from the mechanics of retail. Lets not add them here
I like DF, I think socially it changes the game significantly though, I have recently hit 60, I have run a few dungeons with a mage named Biko who is not even in my guild (generally my guidlies are busy raiding), the only reason I know that name is because he is on my server and I have run two dungeons with him, now I might forget that name in a week but for now I remember it.
DF looses the sense that you are playing with people and its more like playing with Bots. Thats why classic players are against it… also there is the mechcanical issue of having unlimited dungeons through random queue and making the world feel small by avoiding travel time.
I am in favor of dual spec.
…LookingForGroup is a global channel.
Begone, retail troll.
because in wrath we will be saying the same thing we said when we played the original wrath. we will be thinking, it would be awesome to go back and play vanilla and tbc with some of these changes in place. Which a lot of us asked blizzard for. So everytime i see someone say " We asked for no changes", i always let them know that NO “WE” didn’t.