It’s just a different design philosophy. Classic design strongly encourages and incentivizes social behavior. Retail design focuses on making the game easy and convenient for the individual.
I think the former is superior design. Humans are extremely social creatures, and it’s the bonds developed with other players that keep people logging back on and make them very reluctant to quit. It’s ingenious, IMO.
Whereas in retail, players who don’t want to be social have no pressure to do so, and so those bonds and loyalties to other players are much less likely to form.
I think this is the primary reason you see a rush of people buying each new retail expansion and then getting bored and quitting within a couple of months. There’s little social “glue” to keep them logging on.
While in Classic, I think the vast majority of players who made it to max level are still playing.
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Is this dungeon finder going to work like the dungeon finder we’re going to be getting in TBC? If yes, then I’m fine with it but if it’s like retail where you just get teleported to the start of the dungeon when you find a group then no.
I don’t play retail, I can’t say that I’ve never played retail but I’ve never achieved level 60, done raids or do any dailies/world quests. The way dungeon finder is for retail is what i think, the reason people like the early iterations of WoW. Community is everything to an MMO, Classic and TBC is inconvenient which makes players talk to one another but retails DF is just queue up don’t talk, finish the dungeon then repeat. You don’t remember any names the experience of the dungeon wasn’t memorable it was just another small blip of your retail WoW experience. Anyway enough of that, went a bit off track i think.
Dual spec would be great but how do you change what spec you’re in for PvP? Does it change when you get in combat with another player or does it only occur when you’re inside an arena/BG? If i were to choose which, I’d choose for it to only change whilst I’m in a PvP instance.
I’m not sure a game full of selling boosts and gold based raid pugs is an example of a great social game.
Overall game design is a bigger factor. It’s why we saw people logging into Legion so much more than WoD or BfA or SL. Nothing was different about queueable content/social features, but I saw people logging into Legion a lot more frequently and deeper into Legion than I saw in BfA and a lot more than in SL.
Better class design (if you don’t have this, nothing else matters, people have to be having fun while playing), more accessible PvP, maybe better dungeons and raids?
Legion also had better solo content than most expansions.
Legion also had an absolutely horrendous legendary system, and yet, despite that, it kept people around better than SL because the actual content was more fun and class design was better. Playing Legion was just more fun, so it was more popular despite its issues. M+ was a lot more popular in Legion as well.
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Good point. But those things were not intended by the original developers. And if the original developers were still running the show, they would almost certainly do something to fix that. They only remain because modern Blizzard doesn’t care.
I would also point out that those things don’t dominate every server. It’s uncommon on the small RP server I play on, for example.
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this, so many newer players think dual spec is like it currently is, where you can change up anything at any given time. When discussing this on reddit or in discords, 9/10 people think you can just respect at anytime to anything.
OLD SCHOOL Dual spec was saving 2 different talent builds, that you would still have to use gold to change anything up in. It wasn’t todays standard of be anything at any given time.
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huh? I’m not a #nochanges person. But adding boost(s) is just bad.
Queue a dungeon in retail and then go to classic and form a group. You’ll immediately experience a massive difference. Classic requires you to actually talk to people and form bonds. Retail, people rarely speak until they get aggro and then leave the group because they can just mindlessly queue another group.
The difference is not just a quality change, its a whole new way to NOT socialize and form bonds.
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You probably won’t get a group in classic, lol.
Classic doesn’t require you to say anything… nvm form bonds. Most people don’t say anything.
You get deserter if you bail in retail. I’ve seen plenty of dbags leave mid dungeon in classic too. Ohh briarreed didn’t drop, later.
Red tinted goggle nonsense
did you even play classic?
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It is always sad when someone needs it explained that just because something happens in both places doesn’t mean that it is equal. The rates at which something occur is significant.
Had way more droppers and the like in a few weeks of retail than I have the entire life of classic. But no, they are totally equal.
Time invested means there is more of a commitment to success, less toxicity, etc. your experience may be different but then I would say the only common factor is you.
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The most toxic people are in classic 100 fold worse
Dungeons in retail are ez. No one leaves, and if they do you get a new person within a minute. You haven’t thrown an hour of your life away like in classic
talking out of your backsides
I never had this problem. Not once? Must be a different realm thing. Most people instantly posted and joined discord in groups on my classic realm. If someone had to leave it was always a legit reason.
I guess it pays to be on a medium pop server.
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Who uses disc for dungeons ?
Agree 100%. Cross realm, dungeon queues, and dual spec are all QOL changes that sucked the life right out of the game.
Dual spec in particular was the death of true hybrid gameplay. Why play hybrid spec, when you can easily swap between pure X and pure Y.
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It appears the forums mods are also anti DF/dual spec because half of my comments have been removed for “trolling”
Thanks blizz
what a waste of my time
Dungeon Finder was the best thing to happen in Wrath.
No, as opposed to just popping up in the entrance of your desired dungeon with all the quests available to you right at the entrance. What even is immersion anymore? No point in the MMORPG anymore when that happens.
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I agree somewhat. It’s interesting what a difference in community we see server by server. I play on your server and the community is excellent in comparison to the mega server I also play on.
Usually people who want to be social, maybe chit chat. You know, friendly stuff.
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Hardly. I used to get kicked from pug dungeon groups in TBC for not having tree form while I was playing dreamstate resto. I was forced to tree resto to run dungeons but it did virtually no damage for dailies or quests. Dual spec was the best thing that ever happened to my druid.