The debate isn’t that there wouldn’t be an impact. It is how much of an impact it would make. My belief is that it would make a huge impact, while Zipzo and Demoneye don’t think it would make much difference at all.
The only way to prove it would be to test it.
Blizzard has the data. I’m not going to make any presumptions based on forum thread ratios. There’s a very clear box where people can type out why they might have quit.
Also the debate about impact is kind of pointless because I wouldn’t want dual spec regardless of the impact.
I don’t want HvH either, regardless of the (observed to be positive) impact on those queue times either, but Blizz gonna Blizz they’ll either add it or they won’t.
And if Blizzard introduces dual-spec, does that prove it was necessary and that “enough” people were quitting because of it?
Weren’t you the guy that said earlier in this thread that the tank shortage finally stiffled in cata because of dual spec, LFD, and incentives.
Dual spec by itself won’t solve the problem, or even in any meaningful way, help the problem be solved, when by itself.
I’ve used the analogy before, that pissing on a forest fire may technically help, but realistically doesn’t.
Australia knows this well.
It has been tested. Years ago in wrath. SO how much of an impact did dual spec have between tbc and wrath for tank shortages?
If the debate is how much of an impact, and you think it would have a great impact (which history has shown it didn’t) then stop claiming that any marginal improvement is worth it. it weakens your argument.
No… 10char
They did in Vanilla classic and the population was fine…
The only way to have tested it would have been to have dungeon finder + dual spec and dungeon finder + no dual spec… The fact that there was dual-spec and tank shortages does not prove that dual-spec had little to no effect on the number of tanks.
Ironically, WOTLK also introduced Death Knights as an additional tank class, and there was still a tank shortage. So we’re comparing apples and oranges here.
If you really want to test it, make respecs free for a few weeks and let people self-report their experiences.
You could literally tank 5-mans as healing spec in Vanilla.
This isn’t irony, this is you ignoring a glaring point against you.
How am I supposed to report that I simply don’t want it added to the game (because again, it doesn’t belong, and never has) after it gets added?
This would be a completely ill-thought way to “test” dual spec in TBC and would simply net you nothing but confirmation-bias from the people who want it.
Must have been the other Druid from the flock of Druids that live on the forums.
Seriously, why are there so many Druids here, no meme question.
Nevertheless, I’m pretty sure what I stated was already stated earlier in this bread.
Dual spec didn’t single handidly solve the tank shortage, LFD was a bigger part in it by allowing same Heroic farming, easier leveling, currency for gear and alts, cross server, instant teleportation, etc.
Dual spec by itself would have seen an almost exact same response to the tank shortage as if dual spec didn’t exist in the first place.
I did the math on one of these breads, tldr, 9,000 players of even class and spec distribution, with a 30% tank increase from tank viable classes, and a 30% reduction from non tanks of tank viable classes would go from around 1,000 tanks to 1,400 tanks.
This assumes every player is online and willing to do content, specifically heroics since that’s where the shortage is most relevant. It still leaves hundreds of healers and thousands of dps tankless, and it doesn’t take into account time investment.
Those new tanks won’t tank heroics forever, and once that’s done, those numbers will drop substantially compared to dps which aren’t even in the instances to begin with.
So no, dual spec would not solve the tank shortage. It’d be more like an piece of duct tape on a broken water line. Sure less water is coming out for now, but give it a few weeks and it’ll be equally as broken as before.
Druids have the most roles available, it’s not a wonder that Druids in particular would have an investment in dual spec as a feature, either positive or negative.
Also druids are popular right now in TBC due to the arena meta making resto druids super desirable, and PvE meta in all likelihood pointing to bear tanks as the BIS tank in Sunwell.
Let’s pretend we had dungeon finder in TBC right now. What do you think the queue times would be for DPS? If we added an extra tanking class, how would affect queue times? And if we made respecs free, how would that affect queue times?
Also, what is the maximum queue time before DPS stops queuing altogether? What is the maximum queue time before people stop queuing for battlegrounds?
These are all factors that need to be independently tested. So how should we test them?
They added more Tank classes in TBC too by making Pallys more viable (Druids were always viable).
It’s all predicated on the incorrect assumption that people don’t pug tank because they don’t have enough opportunity to do so. They have plenty of opportunity to do so and choose not to.
So, why do players choose not to Tank or heal pugs? Because we don’t like spending our paid for game time after the working day babysitting a bunch of ingrate strangers.
I don’t think there’s a huge issue with Tanks and Healers being available for guild runs and such. Most of us have pretty well used friends lists (and ignore lists) too. It’s pugging where the problem is. Dual spec won’t make me any more likely to go out of my way to tank for a bunch of entitled strangers than I was previously.
The solution to pug wait times, is to not be a douche bag in groups, build up a strong friends list and join an active guild.
Yeah I know in game they’re on the rise still, but on the forums specifically there is just so many. I don’t memorize names, I memorize background color and class, and seeing a horde of blue and orange lines gets me lost in all these breads on who I said what to.
Probably. But it would still be interesting to see the effect.
The main reason people don’t like to spec tank, is because that is all you can do.
I’ve been leveling my Paladin(from 60), and the first thing I did was figure out what spec I wanted to go. My friend wanted me to go prot because it would make it really easy to do dungeons, but I don’t want to only do dungeons. Maybe once or twice here and there, but not back-to-back-to-back-to-back.
Leveling as a tank basically forces you to only level in dungeons. Leveling as a healer basically forces you to only level in dungeons. And at max level, nothing changes.
If you’re going to be “stuck” with one spec forever, pretty much everyone will choose dps.
Yeah maybe for you LMAO
I literally answered that question in the post you’re partially quoting. You should read it.