I am not agains’t it . I am just not for it .
I mean… of course it wouldn’t break anything. I feel like that is the wrong line of logic though.
You could justify many changes by painting them as positive, claiming they wouldn’t break anything, and having a lot of people want them. I could see people asking for rated bgs, or even classes or features from future expansions, with that same line of logic applying equally valid.
Yet I feel like many people would make the same arguments that I see dismissed here for those changes. That having future classes or game features doesn’t feel like TBC, because they weren’t in TBC.
That line is obviously different for everyone. We’re in some changes, so it’s not strictly a purity of experience argument. I don’t know where blizzard’s line on how much is too much of a change lies.
But I don’t think dual spec feels like TBC. It feels like Wrath, which is where the game started to go downhill imo. I’ll use dual spec if they put it in, but I hope they don’t.
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It’s always this response. If you want an exact copy of the game, go play a private server with the 20 other people that share your sentiment.
Don’t you have to be already?
A price tag translates into time spent too I suppose.
They didn’t have to do this.
Do you really think that most guilds plan around having players leave mid raid to go respec? That’s a horrible idea that I have never been a part of, thank God. Sounds like an incredible way to waste time.
The majority of vanilla fans wanted world buffs turned off in raids.
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These arguments have both been beaten to death by anti-dual spec players already, it’s on you to please actually read the threads that already exist on this.
“Ruins the integrity of the game/Did not exist then so should not now”- If you say this or similar and still play tbc classic then I’m here to give you a wake up call. Its already happened! Dark portal pass and deluxe edition has already done far worse than duel spec in ruining the integrity of the game. Basically, a very weak argument and only the smoothest of brains will stand by.
It’s not a weak argument because “ruining the integrity of the game” is not a light switch, it is something that happens over time, subtly, from death to a thousand cuts.
Just because they made x change, doesn’t mean y change should be just fine with us. Bringing up dark portal passes, paladins, drums, or whatever else, is not an argument for dual spec. In fact it strengthens our argument, in that enough changes have already been made, and it’s enough, we can stop there.
“We need a gold sink”- This would be a decent argument if there wasn’t bots infesting the servers and people buying from them and screwing the economy.
I don’t see how there being bots invalidates the point. Clearly, despite the existence of bots, tons of people have a permanent panty-knot over having to pay the measly gold charge to respec a few times every week, which means the respec is successfully still working as a deterrent. The difference here is in how you treat this deterrent. I treat it as doing exactly what it’s supposed to do. You treat it like it needs to be circumvented for the quality of the game, and you need daddy Blizzard to give you a way to go around it, while ignoring that adding it reduces the quality of the game to players like me. It’s selfish.
The vast majority of the playerbase is in favor of #somechanges. Blizzard is in favor of #somechanges. The only debate is what those #changes should be.
What is the guiding principle?
Dual spec can go ahead and stay as “not one of them”.
It is a fully-fledged feature that did not exist until 1 expansion later, that you would be implementing 1 expansion earlier, that’s not a change imo, that’s a full on “fun-sever” level modification.
It seems inevitable that horde-vs-horde queues will become permanent. So what then is Blizzard’s principle for #changes?
I mean, it was removed while other parts of the addition of HvH remained such as a the pre-made cap…so I wouldn’t even be so sure about that. Once it’s actually fully added, get back to me on that.
So you are comparing 1 hour+ queue times per engagement to gold that can be farmed in about 20-30 minutes a day per time you use the respec?
Scale not an impact in your analysis of the decision making?
I dont like horde to horde battlegrounds but lets not pretend that dual spec is even in the same realm of what it would solve. Someone would have to be respeccing multiple times per day to even compare, and that is a pretty significant outlier for most people.
He did it of his own volition with no influence or urging from anyone else.
He did it because he saw the healers struggling with HPS and recognized that we had more than enough damage without him to handle the fight itself.
No, I don’t think any guilds “plan” it, nor did I ever suggest it was planned. Stop putting words in my mouth because you misunderstand what I’m saying.
The core of my comment revolves around the fact that “people don’t switch mid raid” is a lie, as there is no barrier what so ever, outside of player patience, that would stop someone from respecc’ing in the middle of a raid.
If you want to go off about how “Do you really think people plan for this”, then go ahead, but you’re shooting at a different target than I am, and anything you say outside of that is just moot in reference to what I’m saying.
Anyone, at any point, currently in todays TBCC, can leave a raid and go respec in the middle of their raid. Dual spec would not “invent this.”
Before you go on an anti-dual spec rant, I don’t want dual spec either, but coming out here lying to make a point is lame.
We will see now won’t we. But that doesn’t answer my question. What was the principle involved for introducing it in the first place? Why was Blizzard willing to make #changes?
The real problem dual-spec addresses is not how much time it takes to make 100g(50g x2). But rather, a shortage of tanks/healers for dungeons. You complain that it takes an hour to play a battleground, well what about people who wait for an hour for a tank? Or people who just give up entirely because they can’t find one?
What is Blizzard’s principle for #changes?
HvH has primarily been introduced due to the extreme nature of the population imbalance in favor of horde (in PvP).
It has led to a completely incongruent queueing experience, of which Blizzard saw fit to attempt to do something about.
My personal opinion is on the “horde sort of created this problem themselves, they should sleep in their own bed that they made”.
However, I’ve been a horde before, I’m not some kind of over-crazy passionate Alliance down-the-nose jerk, I can see why this would be a change Blizzard would consider, because a huge portion of their playerbase has a difficult time getting in to PvP simply because they play 1 of the 2 factions, but to me HvH comes off as a “baby out with the bath water” solution for a problem with other less aggressive options available.
Dual spec I can make no steel-man argument for. There is simply no justification good enough to warrant its inclusion.
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They could have infinite respecs and it still doesnt resolve the tank/healer shortage. People just dont want to do those roles.
I have a full time tank and I have zero interest in tanking most of the time because its not fun most. I got what I needed and then stopped tanking.
All dual spec would do is make it so I can farm more often, well and maybe make it so I have to deal with worse tanks when I do go in a dungeon.
You agree that dual-spec would address a problem, you just don’t think the problem is big enough to justify it. Whereas horde queues were a big enough problem to justify a change.
Why then don’t you think the H-v-H changes will be permanent?
No, the disagreement herein is what you define as a “problem”.
Dual spec certainly does solve a “problem” in the context of people who don’t care about keeping TBCC closer to how it was actually designed and simply want to bolster their own convenience while playing it.
To me that “problem” is a feature that needs to stay for the integrity of the experience.
Everyone knows that if respecs were free it would increase the number of tanks/healers, but it won’t be enough to completely make up the deficit.
That is like saying reducing queues from 2-hours to 10 minutes doesn’t revolve the problem because there are still 10-minute queues.
Why do people still think dual spec is gonna help with tank shortages?
Wrath had tank shortages. Wrath had dual spec.
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