for most graveyards this is true, you can control a team in a GY until you acheive some other objective, then you cap it and clear them out.
what im talking about is different though, a certain ally community would take the seige engine, cap the entire map, knock down a wall, cap the fortress GY, then take the seige and demos to the default graveyard to GYfarm instead of killing the boss. since all other graveyards were capped, the losing team had no place to go to recover or force the ally team to end the match by killing the boss. the ally team even went as far as not capping the resource nodes so they could stretch the GY farm out even further.
Implementing a reflect on the GY will not prevent this from happening anyway. Instead of openly firing on the GY spawns they will pummel the area just outside the reflect zone. You’re safe inside that little reflect zone but the moment you walk outside of it you’re still dead. End result is that nothing changes and they still farm the enemy.
if they were being dominant, they would have just killed the boss and ended the game, ignoring a path to victory in favor of griefing is in fact cowardice.
there’s literally no reason for the enemy team to ever really be in those areas, so you could make it like 100 yard radius, that’s enough for a team to get setup for a fight. you have to remember that once the GY farm starts so too does the afking. even if players want to fight back, they are half a team at that point. allowing an area that effectively forces pvp only with no siege fire gives them a chance to push back.
Believe it or not, there are actually players that ONLY play epic BGs when they queue battlegrounds… or at least, I’ve never seen certain players outside of one.
There have even been a few blue-hosted threads dedicated entirely to epic battlegrounds. Here’s one that was stickied for a while and had 1.5k+ comments:
So yes, the content matters and there’s players that do care about it.
Now, getting back to the original topic of brainstorming a casual for the panel that is knowledgeable about the content and actually plays the content regularly, Inemia is a decent choice as far as epic BGs go.
Dominance is not a single path, nor does victory imply dominance. If I win a Seething Shore match at 1500-1400, were we dominant? No, we simply won a match.
They did not ignore the path to victory, they already had it locked in. You said so yourself:
In other words, dominance and victory.
They can win any time they choose to.
You like to speak of Sun Tzu and yet you throw away such ideologies when it conveniences your argument.
Is controlling your enemies movement not something which would be encouraged by your apparent deity?
Or we can leave the game as it is instead of implementing in-game safe spaces in order to change the current premade restrictions. You’re trying to spotlight one extremely rare situation in order to achieve a different agenda.
where they crossed the line was when the decided to stop playing the map objectives(kill the boss) and instead GY farm. that was griefing.
art of war would not have you ignore objectives in order to go goof off for two hours.
one thing wow’s pvp model does quite well is translate a real sense of battle to the player in epics. as much as people complain about 3/4 of the maps being determined by one teamfight, everyone lives for that team fight, its why TMvSS and AV turtles are so popular. real world concepts like momentum, fog of war, and routing come into actual play, you see them work in real time instead of just reading about them in books or watching movies.
the actual part that many people refer to with pvp, the cross class assists and meta combos still happen somewhat at nodes, but its not what the game mode is about. nor should it be, we have 2v2 and 3v3 for that. the end result is that you get a little bit of everything, especially in AV, you get some team battle, some small scale pvp in towers/bunkers and even some pve with the elites and elementals. that diverse range of content in a single instance that you can solo queue or premade with friends makes them very fun and very appealing.
i dont think pvp should be balanced around epics, but i do think epics need more dev hours, a few more maps, an overhaul to wintergrasp, and a couple changes to existing maps, most of them honestly to make the maps a bit more balanced in favor of ally.
It would seem that Blizzard disagrees, as it has not been changed in the X number of years that the BG has existed. And thankfully so, since controlling your enemy is indeed a valid strategy.
If we move away from focusing on your one single community and look at how this affects the BG as whole then implementing a safe space will negatively affect other teams. Perhaps teams choose to hold the enemy in this spot while they push for the boss. Implementing your safe space idea hurts this potential path to victory.
That is not the argument here. You said there is literally no reason to ever be in that spot. This isn’t about winning or losing, it’s about map movement/location.
I can reword the question if it makes better sense in the context of your statement.
‘Is there literally any reason to ever control your enemies movement?’
seeing teams form up and do maneuvers is really awesome though, especially when its premade vs premade, those games tend to be very intense.
i’d much rather find a solution that preserves the ability to play with large groups. one suggestion i had was mixing factions, but replacing the merc mode with color selection mode. that way if you want to premade or even pseudo war game, you can have everyone on your team select which faction they want to fight under, that way you can still try and get everyone into the same match, though still up to RNGesus compared to allowing larger group sizes.
both the horde and ally default graveyards are out of the way of movement paths between the ally base and docks and horde base and hanger. you literally have to go out of your way to get there.
and yes, you can control your enemies movement by holding them at another graveyard. but if your team is so dominant as to capture all 4 graveyards, then you don’t need to worry about the enemy team’s movement. additionally, if you are truly playing tactically, the chokepoint at the bossrooms makes a far better strongpoint to hold than the enemy team’s graveyard. this lets you hold the choke and kill the boss without splitting your healers.
They also just reintroduced large scale premades back into tbc classic and are bringing them back for SOM too. I don’t think Blizzard particularly cares one way or another.
Also no one camps the gy and draws the game out every game. There might be 1-2 iocs an evening that do it out of 5-6 epic bgs.
it was silly in the first place, you get the same honor per hour as queueing normally, but miss out on all the extra conquest from winning more games in the same timeframe.
