I am absolutely delighted that she is refusing to answer my question.
She knows exactly where it is leading and that she’s caught without a way out.
1 Like
So as someone who use to be a super hardcore WPvPer and Casual BGer, and still am a casual BGer since I don’t do any PvE really, I see this argument against rated stuff all the time. They have all this crazy ideas of what PvP should be, and allowing things like toys, premades vs pugs etc etc but then have a big opinion that players that took the time to get good gear in rated pvp either shouldn’t be allowed in casual stuff or limited in some way.
And the gear issues is quite honestly still and easy fix. It’s been talked about at nauseum. It’s only become a thing in Slands with the tiered gearing system. Up until Slands high rated players never had a real advantage in any aspect other than they were just better at the game.
There are toys that do or did make it impossible to overcome with skill. Some literally made you immune, or allowed you to escape any situation. And AGAIN, the gear thing has only become and issues in this expansion. Period. Before this every PvPer had access to the same gear no matter the rating, minus maybe a few pieces. But during WoD they even eliminated that.
on the contrary, i was just thinking about it. at some point you have to ask how fluid and war like vs sport like do you want each game mode to be?
the gearing system i suggested is intended to be a universal gearing system that works for all pvpers and even non-pvpers, addressing all the complaints of templates and scaling and SL’s “system”.
i see no issue with something like arena which is intended to be more sport like having limitations on what is allowed to be used.
but epics are more war like, and the fact that they are a hybrid game mode where you mix PVE and PVP, that to me seems like a game mode where you bring your total mastery of the game to the table, so asking you to really show it by allowing a full compliment of toys is just playing into that idea of fully mastering the game.
You dodged the question. So here it is again.
What will you tell those people who do not have the toys which you yourself admitted afford them more power in PvP?
https://i.imgur.com/36FRhtv.mp4
at a surface level, go get the toys dude. but at a deeper level there are points of compromise. say saltwaters, 3rd winds, gliders, and food is allowed, but toy box toys are not.
In a hypothetical election I would still vote for Inemia over some random rated PvP’er/arena junkie for a few reasons:
-
decent posting history and solid feedback provided on the maps I actually play/enjoy
-
is an advocate for better gear for casual/unrated BG players, understands the problems caused by massive iLvL gaps (whereas many rated PvP’ers defend it)
-
I would directly benefit from the easier gearing of #2 since I have my share of alts, anything that makes gearing easier/less work for me is a plus
-
unrated PvP is a very wide cross-section of every class/spec combo, whereas rated PvP is mostly just a small handful of “meta” specs (leaves out many “average” PvP’ers)
-
most importantly (to me anyways), you actually see Inemia inside the game playing the content… on any given night I might run into him 2-3 times while random q’ing
He doesn’t always play with premade buddies, he plays solo-queue games as well. I’ve played some pug games alongside him in the past, just seems like an average/typical BG player to me…
So yes, I would say Inemia “represents” my interests since he’s knowledgeable about the epic BG maps and actually plays the content on most days.
3 Likes
So some toys aren’t available anymore, require luck and a lot of time to get drop etc etc. Time people don’t want to spend doing that if they just want to PvP. Kind of like people who don’t want to spend time farming rating to upgrade gear. Your argument for toys isn’t good honestly. People could say “well go get the rating for the gear”. Just like you just said “well go get the toy”. You are forcing them into something they may not want to do.
And there it is.
"If you don’t have the power in PvP then go get it."
Don’t like the content necessary to get it? Too bad. Go get it.
Don’t have time? Too bad. Go get it.
Interesting how such thinking is ok when it’s a power advantage that you approve of but is not ok elsewhere.
2 Likes
sure, but it thats also why i suggested a point of comprimise: pvp consumables. we could probably live without transformation toys and words of akunda, but pvp consumables should absolutely be part of a rated epic. in raiding you are expected to show up prepared for the raid, why would pvpers version of a raid be any different?
A significant part of that preparation is the expectation that you’ve put in the time and effort to acquire better gear.
Why is PvP any different?
difference in acquisition. if you acquired pvp gear then played rated in that order, i don’t think anyone would complain, the problem is power is handed out to the winner of the type of match you generally want to show up with power before it starts. its like trying to build your racecar after the race has started.
keep in mind there is still issues with pvp beyond gear, but the devs were so close to a perfect system after legion and bfa that it felt like a punch in the gut when they locked it all away behind rated only.
Oh really?
Screechers on this forum complain they don’t want to do rated because it’s not the content they want to play, despite rated being practically the same as random.
If there is a toy that I want then I will potentially have to do content that I don’t want to do.
So how is this situation any different? It is still doing something you don’t want to do in order to gain power.
What if I don’t have time to spend getting that toy? I want to spend my time doing random BGs. Why should I have to go waste my minimal game time getting toys?
there is a difference between getting a toy you want to goof off with and a toy that is required to win. the latter should not be allowed, and much like the hyper compressed ocean, disabled or broken so it doesn’t work. but this is why i suggested a comprimise with consumables. while toys are fun, add flavor, and keep things from getting boring, they require constant attention. i much prefer to come up with solutions that are one stop fixes if implemented.
Most people want this. I don’t get why because a few trolls say otherwise people think there is all these people that don’t want it.
Toys are gimmicky and meant to be fun. Not meant for instanced PvP period. No matter if its Epic or not. Toys from my experience help people ignore the basics of their class and cover up not mastering their class.
1 Like
Ok and what if I am new and don’t have gold to freely spend on consumables for every BG I join? This isn’t a rhetorical question either, I have guildies who are so broke they can barely afford gear repairs, much less consumables.
what about consumables, saltwater vs 3rd wind makes for an interesting choice in pvp, choose to boost your go now at the expense of having no HP fall back for the next 5m. you have to weigh the risk live in pvp.
being new you are going to get stomped by everyone six ways from sunday, a 3rd wind won’t help you yet. but beyond that when exactly you should be given the knowledge im not sure on. if there was an easily findable vendor that might help.
The problem in today’ game of min/max, if a toy gives you any kind of advantage then it’s seen as required to compete otherwise you are at a disadvantage.
Those have literally existed in the game since vanilla in some way shape or form. But they give a clear indication of what they do. They don’t make you immune or do anything gimmicky.
That does not answer the question.
I am new. I want to play PvP. But everyone is using potions which I cannot afford because I only have limited time to play the game and I want to PvP instead of farming gold, which I also don’t even know the best method of doing that anyway.
It’s not fair that they have these power advantages over me. PvP is supposed to be fair and equal.
What do I do?