You speak of fairness in PvP but you’d want to allow toys and potions in rated?
What if people don’t want to do the content required to earn those toys? How would you respond to someone asking you whether it’s fair if some players get to use the Darkmoon Cannon while others cannot because they don’t have it?
“I get chased by demos, so it’s balances out my exploiting the game”
This is the logic I expect from this forum. So whatever 
Imagine all the great changes that will be made with this sort of mind set.
Oh and the real juicy part is that if people don’t like the changes then we’ll have Inemia here to call us all salty because we don’t have friends!
I’m sold. Inemia has my vote.
based on the fact that our comm discord has people in it nearly every day, and we get multiple groups going in different content every night. need RBGs? we have a yolo for that, need torghast? i carry people on saturday afternoons, we have plenty of poeple who do arena that ask in comm for partners as well as groups form for M+ and even raiding sometimes.
meanwhile the last few pve guilds i’ve been in have all died.
SAS has a discord as well, but its generally the ending point, not the starting point, play with us to get invited to the comm, once invited you get the discord link. what we have found is that getting everyone together in voice night after night has cut down on toxic behavior by huge amounts. getting to know the person behind the avatar makes a massive difference.
its all part of theorycrafting and art of war is it not?
This is a common mistake, just because this is what you are experiencing, and see doesn’t mean it’s the norm or a basis to say it’s fact. But my based on what was your comment about Epic BGs being really the only real active thing in PvP.
I mean this is why in general we promote Discord over the in game community honestly.
So you are happy with an advantage from toys that others may not have or want to get, but ok removing gearing because people have an advantage over people that don’t have it or want to get.
Is a difference in equipment not a part of war too?
So then why do you argue that gear should be equalized in PvP while simultaneously suggest that toys should be allowed? Gear or toys, people will have it and people will not have it.
What do you say to those who do not have it?
we’re facing other comms, so we aren’t alone. the issue i would say is that we are mainly facing other comms game after game after game. the game needs more people as a whole.
Toys etc only add to the issues of balance. And quite honestly take a lot of the skill out of things. For instance the toy in the jungle in WoD that you could press and fly far far away when you were about to lose, or just in general. Stuff like that is dumb. IF anything professions should play more of a role like they did in the early arena seasons. Not toys. Toys are meant for silly stuff. Keep those to WPvP.
one addresses barrier to entry while the other addresses deeper level mastery of the game.
They are the same thing.
It still doesn’t give you any basis to say what you said is fact. Only in your experience and space.
They both afford advantages to whomever has more.
There is no mastery in clicking my darkmoon cannon.
You’re grasping.
Come one toys offer no help to barrier to entry or any level of mastery lol.
so you remember the ocean toy exploit in wintergrasp? thats one where its tricky, on one hand its a very novel approach to winning the game, but on the other hand its entirely game breaking.
but stuff like flasks, 3rd wind and saltwater potions, food, glider, these are standard, but what is somewhat fun is when you find a player doing some combo of wpvp and/or toys and it makes them like a raid boss, its a fun puzzle to solve all the things they stacked to get that way.
Ok so a player in gear isn’t ok being a raid boss, but a player using toys is? You are losing me now.
And what of the people who do not have toys?
You’ve still not answered what you would tell those people.
Mmm it’s also a fun puzzle to solve by taking on someone with more gear and beating them.
it is a fun puzzle to take on someone in higher gear, thats generally how i end up playing often, however a saltwater is available to all pvpers, even if you haven’t won a game you can buy them in the AH.
but on the gear, when it becomes impossible for anyone to overcome with any amount of skill, do you still think that is a good model?