And he didn’t die as a raid boss. Even if Sylvanas doesn’t become a raid boss that doesn’t exclude her from possibly dying in a quest.
Which sounds like backpedaling to be, given her gaffe.
Them being sent to the Maw when they should have gone to a different afterlife is the only problem that needs fixing. We have never mass resurrected a population before. You don’t see people asking for the people of Quel’Thalas to be brought back to life after what Arthas did to them.
We do not know that the Night Elf Souls won’t go to Ardenweald. But even if they don’t go there, they should still go to wherever they were supposed to go if they weren’t supposed to go to the Maw.
I would like Tyrande to rally the spirits of Teldrassil’s fallen to kill Sylvanas in a throwback to Malfurion rallying the wisps at Hyjal.
Doesn’t kill Sylvanas herself, but those who died at Teldrassil kill her.
Bonus if they drag her soul to the Maw
The fact that Sylvanas is untouchable will prevent her from dying in a quest, especially dying to a Night Elf character (or Worgen for that instance)
Tyrande being in Ardenweald doesn’t mean her 8.1 statement is untrue though, and it especially doesn’t matter when she just dies there.
You seem to have misunderstood or something, but sending the Night Elf souls to a different afterlife won’t fix the Night Elf story at all. This wouldn’t even come close to a satisfying conclusion, I was already angry before I knew that all Night Elves went to wow hell.
It is a fact, just look at what Sylvanas can do without getting a single scratch for it. If any other character commited those crimes they’d be punished or killed for it, but Sylvanas gets away with all of it because Night Elf lives don’t matter.
Tyrande can be out for revenge even though she achieved the revenge she was going to get in 8.1 already. It’s proven by the fact that Tyrande can’t actually get any revenge if she just dies.
No, but I expected more as a resolution than 8.1 as an entire revenge plot and then potentially freeing the Night Elf souls (which is not even Night Elf exclusive) from the maw and sending them to bastion or maldraxxus or something…
I guess it was unreasonable for me to expect:
Anyone actually brought to justice for Teldrassil
The Night Elves getting Ashenvale back and something that proves that they aren’t facing extinction, maybe a new home or something
general rebuilding of the race
and things like that…
instead we got:
Tyrande dying immediately
Sylvanas, Nathanos and the Horde praised as heroes
The Horde getting Ashenvale and a peace treaty on their own conditions
The only thing that remains of the Night Elves being a few refugees, no new home either
It is not fact. Sylvanas escaping, no matter how many times she does, does not make it fact that she will always escape.
Which would make it so that 8.1 is not all the revenge that the Night Elves could get.
This can still happen if Sylvanas and Nathanos are killed. With Saurfang dead they’re the only named people left. We killed plenty of Horde soldiers during the Darkshore Warfront, the associated world quests, and its introductory questing.
Those things we can still hope for after Shadowlands. Sadly we now know they are not likely to happen in Shadowlands itself.
Again, not other character would get away with such crimes commited. She did worse to the Night Elves than Arthas did to the Blood Elves, yet she is still praised as a hero and has to face zero repercussions, just like the Horde. It proves that Teldrassil isn’t seen as a crime anymore.
It is though, again Tyrande won’t achieve any revenge in Shadowlands since she dies, that makes 8.1 the entire revenge plot and proves her statement.
So it can’t happen.
Yea, we can always assume that in 10 years it will be different…
Except that all of them happened/are happening.
I just don’t know why you are being unrealistically optimistic about things when it’s obvious that we’re getting the usual treatment, as always.
This is a bold claim. Arthas killed quite a lot of Blood Elves by tainting the Sunwell.
She has not been praised as a hero since.
Blizzard has called Teldrassil a crime several times in interviews recently. Just as with your not actually having any facts, you also don’t have any proof. You only have paranoia.
And once again none of this is fact.
It can happen.
None of them have happened/are happening. You’re just confusing your speculation as conclusions.
I just said that Sylvanas and Nathanos can still be killed and Blizzard has never said otherwise. I didn’t say they will be.
I will grant you that. That strangely did take it a step further, since even Sylvanas started raising some of her victims as undead out of spite like Arthas did.
Technically so did Arthas: Ghostlands, Eversong, and Quel’Danas.
The Horde hasn’t really. The Horde kind of disappeared after Sylvanas did. They’re pretty much nowhere to be seen in 8.3.
Nothing indicates she will be redeemed.
Or also from Blizzard’s view.
I’m a nihilist and a pessimist. Optimism isn’t a feature of mine. I just don’t blindly subscribe to the sky is falling, either.
None of this is true.
None have happened or are happening.
The writing teams is not trying to spite Night Elf fans. Just because Blizzard wants you sad doesn’t mean they want to spite you.
Yea, but if it was compared with the Night Elves’ situation, they would’ve only gotten Eversong back with Quel’Danas permanently destroyed and Ghostlands being scourge territory while Lor’themar signs a treaty with the scourge so they can keep it.
The Horde has been praised as heroes on Alpha, especially the forsaken. Furthermore, they have been entirely absolved of their crimes and they are apparently completely even with the Night Elves now.
Except that everything does, especially the writers’ wills to spit on Night Elf fans and keep Sylvanas as the face of WoW forever.
Not really.
You’ll see it all eventually, anyay.
It is though, they might have in the past but that was with different writers.
Again,
If they want Night Elf fans to be sad forever, then that kind of is spiting them considering that they don’t treat other races like this.
I mean, they only really got part of Eversong back and even Quel’Danas was scared and the Sunwell destroyed, and Ghostlands pretty much were Scourge lands between Warcraft III and BC. Treating Classic as an expansion to Warcraft III, that’s a pretty long expansion the Blood Elves needed to wait, and even then their zones never got updated to undo the damage Arthas did. Even now Blizzard keeps showing Ghostlands in its blighted state.
I mean, that’s basically what he did, with Rommath begging him not to be the puppet of a monster like Sylvanas.
What doesn’t make it to live is irrelevant to Story Forum discussion. There’s datamined voice acting of Baine attacking the Alliance, too, but that’s not canon, so it doesn’t matter.
That needs to be addressed, but it has nothing to do with Sylvanas at this point, since she’s not with the Horde any more.
None of this is fact, either.
Yeah really.
If you’re right you’re right. But you’re not right yet.
Still not true. The current writers have shown the like the Night Elves. They’re just not above killing them.
Again no.
They don’t want Night Elf fans to be sad forever. They just have no skills at planning ahead for anything they write.
Still shows that the writers think that the Horde is honorable and noble heroes for doing that to the Night Elves, and what the writers think matters.
But it won’t be, because again they’re even with the Night Elves now. There’s peace.
Yes it is, stop being in denial for once and see the obvious.
If Blizzard thought that Tyrande’s quest for justice was justified, they wouldn’t spend to much time portraying her as wrong and killing her off while redeeming Sylvanas and the Horde of their crimes.
Yea, they definitely have, especially in the following:
Nearly wiping the race out
Taking 3 zones from them to give 1 back
Not giving them a single victory or rebuild after that
Making their leader go through a dangerous ritual to kill her off
all of that just so our pay off can be killing that 1 Val’kyr in 8.1 while Sylvanas and the Horde are heroes now and we have to suck it all up.
They definitely do NOT like the Night Elves or their fanbase, they despise them and would like to see them all gone.
If you’re not acknowledging those things then why even discuss? The Horde has Ashenvale, the Horde has achieved a peace treaty and eliminated the Night Elves as they wanted.
The Night Elves don’t have a home now and all that’s left of them are those refugees living on the streets of stormwind. Their remaining military has shown to be unable to reclaim their own lands even with the Night Warrior ritual.
They do, that’s why it’s tragedy after tragedy with no building up or fistbump moments after that. Instead we get promised Tyrande in Ardenweald just so they can make fun of us by killing her off.
Not it doesn’t. Exile’s Reach is set before the War of the Thorns, so that datamined text wouldn’t have even accounted for events that hadn’t happened yet.
Unfortunately Blizzard will probably sweep the Horde under the rug for this, yes. But they’re sacrificing Sylvanas to do so.
Stop being paranoid for once and admit that nothing you’ve said is fact.
They have not redeemed the Horde of their crimes. They just haven’t addressed them at all. But they have not portrayed Tyrande as wrong for going after Sylvanas. Everyone is going after Sylvanas. And they have not redeemed Sylvanas or put any time that we’ve seen into doing so, either.
The Night Elves won Darkshore back. Beyond that, you must think they hate the Blood Elves, too, then.
Once again, neither Sylvanas or the Horde have been portrayed as heroes during the Fourth War or after it.
This is in no way true. Businesses that like money do not work this way.
There has been no statement that the Horde has Ashenvale. For all we know, Malfurion took Ashenvale back before “Terror of Darkshore”.
The Horde have not eliminated the Night Elves. The Horde didn’t even touch the Night Elves’ military, which fitting came and defeated the Horde in their return to Darkshore. And Tyrande did not sign even the armistice, so the Horde certainly hasn’t achieved a peace treaty yet.
Which will supposedly be addressed after Shadowlands.
Quite the opposite. Everything had indicated the Night Elves had won the Darkshore Warfront even before Dansuer confirmed it.
There are plenty of fistbump moments all throughout the Kalimdor leveling experience as well as Mount Hyjal and the Emerald Nightmare. The only thing missing is showing the results of the Night Elf victories, but that’s a gameplay issue, not a lore issue.
Nothing indicates they’re going to kill Tyrande off.
It’s not just about exile’s reach, it’s about those race descriptions.
No, they are blaming it all on Sylvanas so that they can ignore those crimes and sweep them under the rug.
I’m not paranoid, just telling you what’s happening.
“Noble protectors of the living” - Forsaken race description. That and the fact that the Alliance has fully forgiven the Horde and made a peace treaty with them on conditions that favour the Horde.
They have portrayed Tyrande as wrong for not trusting the Horde and going after Sylvanas. Most of the Horde isn’t even angry at Sylvanas, same with the Alliance it seems like.
Yea because they think they’re smart if they surprise us and say “see nobody of you expected this”. They can’t keep Sylvanas around as a villain forever so they’ll redeem her, same with Nathanos.
Arthas and the Scourge weren’t redeemed, were they? And the Blood Elves obviously had a future and a home in contrast to the Night Elves who have nothing.
Those new race descriptions, Sylvanas redemption and the fact that Teldrassil keeps being brought up for people to cheer about, also that the writers justified Teldrassil with the fact that the Horde defeated G’huun right after and things like these say otherwise.
But single writers that have a vendetta against Night Elf fans do, that’s probably what’s happening at Blizzard.
You think they’d take a zone away from the Horde to give it to the Night Elves
The Night Elves’ military couldn’t even get their lands back from the Horde, even with the dangerous Night Warrior ritual that got Tyrande killed. The only victory we got was killing that 1 Val’kyr, literally nothing else.
Sure… sure it will. Maybe a giant mountain crashes in on all the Night Elves in Stormwind so that it’s addressed.
Nothing had indicated it really, it was a massive surprise that the Night Elves got 1 of their 3 zones back, but not surprisingly the Horde still got Ashenvale out of it.
And those weren’t written by the same hateful people that are destroying the Night Elves right now.
Except the voice lines saying that she will die, or the fact that it will be sad, or you know… all the other hints that I already listed.
I’ll have to pause this discussion for now because I can’t handle thinking about the fact that Shadowlands will make everything much much worse for the Night Elves even though many (including me at some point) thought that it would finally go uphill again…
These are all wonderful suggestions but to build the Night Elves back up they need to make meaningful victories against the Horde. There’s no way around that. I don’t think Horde players should have to quest through that experience. But it should be something developed for Alliance players with Horde players getting something of equal value that helps rebuild the Forsaken.
It can’t be ignored that the massive issue with Night Elves is that everytime they’re on screen they’re getting their teeth kicked in by the Horde. Everytime. It’s not enough to just give them a new capital and call it a day. Victories need to be made and they need to be made on screen for Night Elf players.
Race descriptions that were for starting at Exile’s Reach.
That is in essence what I said, yes.
You can tell me the sky is falling all you want. That just makes you paranoid.
If it didn’t make it live it doesn’t matter.
The Alliance has not forgiven the Horde, nor do we know what conditions came with the armistice. We haven’t see anything that favors the Horde or the Alliance at this point.
No they haven’t, specifically because she’s going after Sylvanas and not the Horde.
Everyone in the Horde is angry at Sylvanas, from the Mag’har to the Blood Elves to the Darkspear. They’re all hunting for Sylvanas and any of her remaining supporters.
Or kill them.
Neither is Sylvanas so far.
And the Night Elves will have a home and a future after Shadowlands as well.
Not canon. Once again, if it doesn’t make it live it doesn’t matter.
No redemption for Sylvanas. Blizzard brings up Teldrassil to reemphasize how horrible it was. That people cheer for just comes with the territory of being a video game with such a large fan base that statistically you’ll get people cheering for anything no matter what it is.
Which has nothing to do with Teldrassil. The Horde can have saved the world and that still would not make up for the War of the Thorns or for Teldrassil.
No writer at Blizzard has a vendetta against Night Elf fans. No company would keep someone on who has become so unhinged by fans that they have vendettas.
I do. Lore wise they already had once, giving Ashenvale to the Night Elves after Siege of Orgrimmar. The Horde didn’t even leave occupational forces in Astranaar when marching through this time.
The Night Elf military got Darkshore back. For all we know, they also got Ashenvale back.
Skepticism is healthy, but yelling that Blizzard won’t do it isn’t helpful. You should keep demanding that they keep their word instead. If you give up on that, your crying that Blizzard won’t do anything isn’t actually helping any one.
Most things indicate that the Night Elf victory happened after the first round of the Alliance version of the warfront proper itself. Nathanos is no longer at Darkshore (having headed back to Zandalar before the Battle of Dazar’alor, and then we see him for Nazjatar before he goes back to Orgrimmar, and he doesn’t show up in the Alliance version of the Darkshore Warfront, either). The Horde’s version of the warfront is set right after the Alliance intro questing since the Horde has to save Belmont, and since that’s always the case and generals don’t change like at Arathi it would seem this is a gameplay mechanic like repeating dungeons rather than battlegrounds (Belmont also doesn’t show up in the Alliance version of the Darkshore Warfront, so it’s not like the Alliance players recapture him every time, either).
And even outside the Darkshore Warfront we have support that the Alliance won:
That Danuser confirmed the Night Elves won it was still nice, though.
Nothing indicates the Horde got Ashenvale.
Hah! There were posters back in that time that probably thought those writers hated the Night Elves even more than you think the current writers do. This is just people fabricating an enemy to rally around as they always have.
And NPCs are wrong all the time. Maiev said Tyrande would die, too, and she didn’t.
Tears do not have to be sad.
All of which I have pointed out the flaws in your thinking about.
I don’t get the complaint about the character intro stuff not referencing how horrible the horde is. The datamined stuff was campy as hell, yeah, but those lines are for trying to hype up a player using his character for the first time. And especially since it takes place beforehand, mentioning Teldrassil just doesn’t belong there at all. An undead’s character intro isn’t meant to be about the night elves.
