Who is normal raiding for anymore?

Community General Discussion
102

Indeed. In fact, I’d go as far to say to say the reason people are defensive of the overtuned raids is because they want tier to remain exclusive and out of reach as much as possible.

Some people see fun as zero-sum. If someone else is having fun playing with these cool pieces of tier, somehow that has subtracted my enjoyment, and I don’t want that, so I gotta fight to keep these fights overtuned so that beer league players can’t enjoy the cool new shiny patch feature.

:man_shrugging:

Cringe, but what are you going to do? Lots of WoW players have thick, unwashed neckbeards, that’s just part of the community I guess.

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103

I totally agree, its one of the reasons I don’t raid at all. LFR is a dumpster fire and being able to actually find people just wanting to have fun and not get upset is slim to none .
Its why I’m an Altoholic and basically farm professions and play to waste time

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104

Sir, with all due respect you have 20~30 clears on the last two raid tiers on Heroic difficulty. What we’re talking about here isn’t how easily a heroic raid team can clean normal. Nothing of the sort.

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105

I’m going to add this here (though I usually do not comment twice in a feed, but I wanted to convey the feedback from my friend, who is, by all accounts a high-end competitive raider, regularly gets AoTC and just adores raiding - sitting on multiple AotC teams.

some things to consider, as much as i agree the raid is suppose to be tuned for a 235 it isnt, in no means is it at all, the kill order you have for this week is the one i highly recomend, however one thing for sure is run mythics i know its not a job and its suppose to be for fun, but gear is going to be important atleast till bliz gets off their arses and tune it properly, most of nephs and my raid team are in the 245-250 ilevels we are all hitting hard and keep hitting brick walls, alot of movement this raid alot of cordination for sure, but the bonus tier sets drop from running mythics in your vault, so the more you do the more chances at tier pieces, tier will help hit harder for most classes. and the pieces that arent tier being a higher ilevel will also help.

This is regarding NORMAL difficulty, the difficulty intended for casual, friends and family raiders.

Also:

This raid is not the easiest so we are all working hard on out mains… I have to catch up to get ready for double Legos. I also have to run Taz through 8 mythic to better its chance for tier pieces… we keep hitting brick walls so it’s work on our mains and thur is our teams mythic night…

It’s scarry to think by how hard our raid team is hitting now and we still hit brick walls and it’s only reg… not even heroic yet

So to be clear, my friend’s heroic/AOTC guild is hitting a brick wall on NORMAL SotfO. This raid is wildly overtuned, like by orders of magnitude inappropriate for the intended skill and power.

I need to be clear, normal raids should not require tier until the very end of the raid. We should not be forced to side-upgrade to normal gear ilvls outside of raiding - that’s a hardcore effort to cheese heroic mechanics. We should be able to, with SoD gear, do SotFO bosses without having to farm M+.

I am pretty sure Blizzard could do a general 15% nerf across the board and all that would do is make Normal difficulty the difficulty it should have been in the first place.

If Blizzard’s intent is to fire the casual players in WoW, this is the way to go. But if Blizzard wants to retain the casual raider base (and not shed more subscriptions to the far more casual raider friendly FFXIV) then they had better get off their duffs and take a really hard look at the tuning imbalance for Normal.

4 Likes
106

Wiping for 3 weeks on the first boss is not normal even for a beer/family league group.

You seem to think that all beer/family league groups are just super casual potatoes that should just be able to afk through normals.

It is insanity to continue running head first into a boss and wiping for 3 weeks without actually figuring out what went wrong.

How is normal mode raid designed for higher end players?

It’s a scaled version of the full fight on mythic and you get more than enough gear from just doing dailies.

None of the “higher end” players are feeling the difficulty on normal so that assumption is wrong. “Higher end” players dont go into normal to challenge themselves.

Your opinion.

“Fundalmentally flawed” lol

107

4-5k dps was easily achievable in Season 1. First boss is a cleave fight, pulling 4-5k tells me that A: people aren’t pushing their buttons…like at all, or B: people don’t understand how the boss works and are scrambling and dying to bad (ie, not standing I’m the shield, getting kicks, or tanking correctly so that people are in the shields and able to attack when aoe damage goes out.

Tldr, on normal this boss should fall over if people just stay alive, even at 4-5k dps. So either nome of these people even attempted to even open the dungeon journal and read it, or nobody knows it exists.

108

LFR and Normal mode need to be consolidated. The developers are sabotaging their own system by time gating LFR a month after the raid is released. LFR serves no purpose anymore. Release normal mode with LFR difficulty bosses.

Increasing normal mode difficult so casual guilds have a hard time clearing it is what dropped raiding participation in Cataclysm. The same mistake is being made in Shadowlands.

No one is saying difficult raiding should be removed from the game. The race to world first is great exposure for WoW, but the average player will not step foot in a mythic raid even 10 months after the patch is released. Normal does not need to wipe a casual group more than 3x per boss.

7 Likes
109

I have casually done the zone on an enhance shaman and bought enough 226 gear at first to get it up to speed. Now after questing it’s up to 230 and if the Normal raids are designed around 250 I have no idea how I’ll get to that quick enough (also now at renown 70 if that has any bearing). Not sure if I’m missing something somewhere, and I have no idea how to access the forge that we can make tier gear at. So if Normal was designed with 250 in mind then I guess I’m not getting into any PuG any time soon.

So from a laid back chill league kind of player I guess I am at the mercy of drop rates from LFR and running Mythics? I even did earn flying which I figured would require me to unlock the essentials of the zone especially the forge for us casuals. Also noticed I could buy 246 gear but I don’t even have enough to buy one piece, and rares seem to drop 233 and up? Not sure if ilevel from rare drops scale to your ilevel? Honestly confused on how that works.

All that said maybe they moved away from Normal being the friends and family difficulty? I know they’ve made LFR tougher then it had been in the past so perhaps they made Normal tougher as well, basically Heroic but minus the extra hp, damage, and for some bosses a new mechanic.

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110

I want to do the raid and not form/join a premade?

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111

Normal drops 252 iirc, so tuned for mid-230s to 240s

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112

Okay that’s good to know thanks for the info! Perhaps people feel they need to have near 250 cause things hit hard then, or who knows.

113

I’m kind of with you. I run with similar folks sometimes. My guild is similar but we’re like that about heroic. I’m mixed, because over the years I’ve vastly improved at the game. Me at age 34 would kick the teeth out of age 17 me. Gaming has changed, the min max the fun out of things is the normal way now. Yet you want to play with your friends over performance, which is how it should be. Maybe allow people to select LFR difficulty? Idk because if this game gets any easier and brain-dead, I’m not sure I’ll want to stick around. Literally every solo task is far too easy for me outside of the magetower, so I still want a challenge. I partly want to tell your guild to “get good” and also don’t want to leave them behind. You’ll never please everyone or have one size fits all sadly. So, over I’m not sure what to tell you.

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114

My guild was average 255ish when we did normal for the first time.

Every boss until anduin was burn the boss asap and deal with one shot mechanics, at 250 you are overgeared to the point where the bosses sort of just fall over.

Dausegne and Lihuvim took 3 minutes and we just smashed our heads against it.

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115

Your skill level is so far beyond the target audience for normal it’s insane.

Your talking about a 10/10 mythic cutting edge guild against a normal raid.

A +2 vault gives the same item level as a normal raid. Cypher gear is the same item level as a normal raid.

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116

4-5k in raid is, what, normal Castle Nathria numbers? I was doing that before class buffs, BiS, and around ilvl 207…

We also got weaker, losing the crutch of Domination sockets and shard set bonuses. This tier asks a little bit more from the players before double legendary and tier sets. If not, auto-powercreep and nerfs will make it more accessible.

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117

idk man I’m raiding with a pretty lighthearted guild atm that has mostly active pvp players (so not primarily focused on raiding)

and xymox is making me want to slam my head between a car door
it doesn’t help that my current job only lets me raid one day with them
idk why does this man’s adds hit so hard
and Fortnite kid in the airship out here 360 noscoping people

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118

Just showing Padgarre that the normal raid isn’t designed for 250+ people.

A group of organised people can clear it at a lower ilvl.

Yes, we are way over geared for normal.

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119

Just had another night of wiping over and over and over. It’s just not fun. At all. Too many punishing mechanics. Too many for normal, unless normal isn’t for friends and family anymore. Maybe Blizzard just says FU and has decided Normal is for Heroic raiders to gear up. That’s the only thing that makes sense.

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120

I think your groups skill level means a lot more than your gear.

A group of people able to coordinate a mythic raid clear should laugh at the normal raid coordination requirements.

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121

Has the raid leader figured out why you guys are wiping?