My guild is doing ok on normal. We’re not a CE guild and we’re on Anduin now. The raid is a little bit overturned, which is fine because we are also getting large increases in player power with double legos & tier sets. We would be more upset if we were able to steamroll the bosses with relative ease so early.
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You can learn a lot by trial and error but why wouldn’t you use a video to get a jumpstart too? Even a beer league group could spend 10 minutes watching and explaining and save a ton of wipes, and that’s less time invested than a couple pull-wipe-rez-buff-review rounds
Blizzard is trying to discourage more and more players from raiding.
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I think this is the game they are playing here. With M+ as well. If they can get people to spend the first 5-10 weeks progressing in LFR instead of normal or m10’s instead of 15’s, that’s 5-10 weeks of gear they’ll eventually want to replace.
And the OP hit the mark dead on with my experience in a casual old farts guild. And it’s been this whole expansion. The guild managed AotC for the last two raids of BfA and it’s just been getting progressively worse all expansion.
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They didnt miss the mark with tuning. People saying this need to seriously stop it.
Last night our group of people, most of which only even log in for raids, killed 5 bosses in an hour and a half with some people wearing full sets of 229 greens.
This raid is not too hard. It is not overtuned.
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Sounds like a minor thing, but people are really having a hard time to actually spot some bosses abilities because of EXCESSIVE BRIGHTNESS of the raid. I can list like, swirles at first boss that does a heavy damage on heroic that people seems to just don’t see it…
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Yeah, the number of flashing effects is what makes it so bad, it’s hard to see stuff.
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The raid is a mechanics nightmare.
It’s not about dps/hps tuning.
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You understand that your post is actually evidence for my argument, right?
You only killed 5 bosses with raiders in 252+ gear. When you’re talking about Normal Mode. Normal Mode should be able to be steamrolled with mediocre players with a mix of catch-up gear and M0 gear. You say full set of 229 as if that isn’t the ilvl you should be able to beat the raid in. You are massively overgearing the content.
AOTC or Mythic Raiders slumming it in Normal Mode and not even getting to tier bosses is supporting the argument it is overtuned.
You are losing this argument, hard, lol.
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Are you kidding ? Raids have increased in difficulty over the years . Some of the older raids now would be considered LfR difficulty compared to now.
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I don’t understand how normal isn’t “beer league”. I got close to blackout drunk last week and did fine in a normal pug.
5k dps should be enough on the first boss… are they just failing the mechanics over and over again?
The raid leader should watch a video so he can get people started. He should suggest a specific video in advance. That’s very different from having to sit down for a 2.5 hour session of going through everybody’s logs instead of raiding.
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Normal should he easy for people that easily clear heroic and some mythic bosses.
That it’s been 3 weeks and you haven’t cleared normal yet, with your 1 anduin kill having 5 dps parse purple or higher (with a 97% parse from a 2.8k io Ret Paladin) kind of screams the raid is too hard for it’s intended audience.
Normal should he well below your skill level.
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Extreme pass fail and a lot of carry. And at this point… attrition.
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Well 2.5 is definitely dumb. But everyone watching and explaining for 15-20 mins should at least get the group in a good place to start pulls, especially since it’s sounding like mechanics are way more important than pumping in this one.
What if raid has the difficulty spectrum mechanics of mythic dungeon? Raid could have 7 difficulties, analogous to M0, +2, +5, +10, +15, +20, and +25. Call them like LFR, Normal, Heroic, Mythic I, Mythic II, Mythic III, Ultimate. Have LFR be as is, make a new difficulty tier for new normal that is full mechanics but at LFR tier health and damage, make new heroic more like old normal, Mythic I be a new difficulty that has the full mechanics but at heroic raid health and damage, then Mythic II be like current mythic, and then start scaling the health and damage up to extremes beyond what we currently have.
Oh give it up already. You’ve done lost this argument yesterday.
You’re not running the content “exclusively” with people “undergeared” and facerolling it…the groups you are mentioning smashing through it ALREADY objectively overgear it.
A pug group inviting people 250+ ilvl and probably filtering for those with decent IO or proven experience is straight up stacking the deck in their favor and NOT in ANY way what a normal raid is INTENDED to be aimed for. The target demographic is LITERALLY people 15-20 ilvls under that and whose skill levels are middle to even slightly left of the bell curve.
It even begs the question why you are on this crusade to begin with. The only logical explanation is you are the textbook definition of a special snowflake raider whose sense of pride and accomplishment relies on as few people as possible able to do the fights too because if they can do the fights too, you aren’t as special or good which is just absolutely pathetic.
If you and your imaginary group of people are so good and smashing normal at 229 ilvl, go move on to heroic and face smash it there since clearly you are robots parsing 100% anyway.
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I’m far from casual and the current design is killing me 
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This is the argument I would describe as “increased accessibility has made raiding less epic”.
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