Exactly. The amount of people who want to be challenged by this raid, but then just copy solutions that other people have figured out crack me up.
If you want a challenge, then figure it out. People who say they want a challenge have 56 addons and have watched more minutes in videos than the fight takes. They are copying someone else’s homework and the bragging at their good grades. Bravo!
Edit: typos.
As one of the average to slightly-above-average players in the group, if I want to get AOTC I will. That’s not really relevant. I’d like to get AOTC with this group - you know, the people I enjoy playing the game with - without half of them quitting in frustration and half of them leaving for a more serious group in frustration. Taking 6 weeks of wipes to kill heroic sire already carved two long-time friends out of raiding with us for the rest of Shadowlands, and this is something that’s happened with more and more consistency over the years. Normal Anduin causing the amount of frustration it has for people that had fun clearing the equivalent difficulty of content together years past doesn’t make any sense and isn’t good for the health of the community.
Getting AOTC means nothing to me; playing with people I like playing with does, and as that gets harder my interest - and I think the interest of a lot of people - wanes.
But thats always going to be the case you are running with a team of effectively 2 groups of people.
Group 1 better than AoTC players wanting to push in and kill bosses
Group 2 not AoTC players but do well enough to get carried
Your problem is that your pushing the lower end of your group to participate in content that is beyond them. Which if they are up for the challenge is fine but if they dont want to be challenged by a video game they are slowly going to get annoyed by those people who never die etc.
In the end you have to make the decision do you step down to even easier content that they can do, move to a different game with easier content, or leave to pursue the harder content without them.
You could offer to coach/teach them how to play but I assume you have already done that and they have no interest in it.
As a plus once the better players get their tier you will be able to carry the other guys again to AoTC this season (sure there will be a bunch of wipes to do it but that is how raiding works).
I read the journal. It is not detailed enough for some fights. Some fights it is perfect as long as you also pay attention which works for me.
But they should do better in the journal and some in telegraphing of mechanics instead of outsourcing that to YouTube.
Much like their customer service shouldn’t send you to wowhead.
Normal is not content that should be beyond people capable of completing normal-equivalent content last expansion or the expansion before. That’s sort of the point of this thread man.
The reasoning for this is that addons have somewhat-trivialized more difficult content. So they added more and more mechanics. Those mechanics have made it more and more necessary to have those addons. And it’s been a self-compounding situation that has just gotten worse and worse each tier. And now we are where we are.
Yea, keep up with that attitude and watch blizz lose the rest of their subs.
Normal casual players dont want a game so hard that it’s no longer fun to play.
And normal casual players are what 90%of this game consists of.
So keep dumping on them.
That way when you start complaining that the game is even more empty, and no one to play with, I can say “told you so”
There’s a reason they lost 3 million subs in just a couple months.
Yes but the point is that normal is clearable thousands of people have already done so, hell there is a bunch of pugs who have killed normal jailer this week.
An example is there is more than 100 Blood DKs who have killed heroic Anduin (meaning at least 50 groups if every group had 2 blood dks but lets be honest its more likely well over 100 groups).
Lets stop pretending that the journal is as usefull as you make it seem.
There are plenty of mechanics and such that the “journal” doesn’t mention, or doesn’t really give enough info on.
The journal can only do so much like for halos it explains the effect says you get a debuff that will kill you if you hit a second halo while debuffed.
What is not listed
Skills that can prevent the debuff (AMS, blinking over the halo, monk transcence other teleports, immunities etc).
It doesnt mention that the boss releases black motes into the pillars that will launch halos and the order that the motes hit the pillar dictates which one goes first to last (first mote hit is first halo, second mote is second halo and so on).
It doesnt tell you or have a diagram on how to best position yourselves to be able to do minimal movement and still survive all the halos.
But thats the point its a basic ability text description of the casts if your relying in the journal you need to also pay attention during the fight and work out what image is what ability etc
It was pretty obvious they were being sarcastic.
I agree. Normal has too many hoops to jump thru for a Normal guild.
One look and Anduin will shatter many of them.
Remove add-ons, and make fights a straight forward affair.
These people these days that say watch a video, I remember playing games long before YouTube or anything like that was a thing, know what we did, we either figured it out ourselves, or you went to a game shop and bought a thing called a guide, but even that wasn’t needed.
The current Dev team seems to design around the idea of add-ons and videos. They really need to stop, at least with normal difficulty.
Addons have caused blizzard to have to choose between making mechanics harder or the content becoming easier. It’s blizzards fault for picking to make things harder, and tuning things too hard.
They could just let normal get a bit easier with DBM and such and let heroic and mythic be the mechanics nightmare needed to be “difficult”.
The curious thing is that the “people” who are expecting normal raiders to be expert theorycrafters who can analyze raid mechanics on the fly - those people have a raid leader who is great at teaching them how to deal with the mechanics.
The purpose of normal raiding now seems to be turning casuals who raid with their buddies for fun into FFXIV players.
So normal raiding should not be about playing with friends any longer. It’s about dumping your friends who aren’t good enough to play a videogame up to your standards and recruiting new “friends”, who will of course move on at the drop of a hat, because with “friends” there are no loyalties.
“Thousands of mythic and heroic raiders have cleared normal already”. What does that have to do with the discussion?
How many players who didn’t kill heroic bosses last tier have done it? How about none? Do you have actual data on that?
I don’t think addons have played a role in blizzard’s decision to make normal raiding harder in order to weed out casuals from raiding.
Not sure why people is in quotes.
I would give you numbers of people who didnt kill heroic bosses in 9.1 but still have normal Anduin down in 9.2 in my alts Anduin kill there is at least 3 players without heroic kills in 9.1 one of which is actually my alt because I literally leveled him late in 9.1 specifically to help out and FnF raiding community.
But the point is you will just say oh but they are all heroic+ raiders on alts (which is possible).
The point is the content is able to be completed so if people are struggling in your friends group offer to help them stop complaining its too hard.
It went both ways in CN. Those that got their good legendaries early, said it was easy. Those that got trash legendaries, or none at all, didn’t have the same experience. I enjoyed Legion a lot, but RNG legendary items was a terrible mistake, especially when classes were gutted and the legendaries made then feel whole again.
Just like having no tier is trash currently.
There are people with 4p already…and there are people with a single piece of tier (or worse).
What would be the harm in just giving people 239 tier in the storyline.
The good players need to replace them anyway.
The issue is that 4p doesn’t affect all classes/specs the same.
Some classes are gaining 40% dps from 4 set. Some classes are gaining 5% dps from 4 set. Currently, with the mix, there’s just no room for anyone who plays a class that relies on 4 set, who doesn’t have it…in a pug…and that creates a very frustrating experience for that player.
I am 10/11 Normal and this toon got his 3rd tier piece while my main still have no tier piece…It sad that this toon will get his 4 set gears before my main toon dose. >.<