that’s a bit of a stretch and an over-exaggeration.
How do you figure?
because it’s a turn of phrase. She’s not actually cussing out Queen Lianne like you implied. You are exterting hyperbole to make a similar connection that cannot be made. a victim calling her abuser a son of a isn’t the same as Garrosh telling Sylvanas to shut her expletive mouth. One is justified rage the other is gendered abuse.
I’ll say for what it’s worth it’s obvious her meaning is more to call Arthas a dog than to insult Lianne. My equivocation is less about feminism and more about how much these T rated games should be worried about what’s appropriate for the devs’ little kids.
And I frankly doubt that’s even the true concern as much as that maybe some people would sympathize with Garrosh’s disgust with the unrepentant mass necromancer - an attitude Voss should really have shared, now that I think of it.
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it’s not about feminism at all Ruthus don’t make it something it’s not. It’s just not okay to be verbally abusive towards women in violent misogynistic way - that’s what Garrosh was being and why it needed to be removed. I support Blizzards decision to remove that line. Arthas also refers to Sylvanas as “woman” and that’s equally degrading and wrong. It’s a relic of a time when games were allowed to be as sexist as they wanted to without any recourse.
Vulgarisms like that never fit into the heroism brand of World of Warcraft, and were always used to code men as villianous. Garithos, Arthas, Aedelas Blackmoore, Garrosh, Godfrey… were all villians my guy. Don’t try to spin them as your personal heroes.
Yeah, it’s about Danuser’s favoritism. I wouldn’t insult feminism by lowering it to that. But it’s not “okay” to [Immolate] or [Hamstring] someone either, even at war. Leave my fantasy game alone.
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It’s a relic of Arthas being a villain who the whole world wants dead. The women who’ve taken over writing him have made him more overtly misogynistic than he was in the “sexist game.”
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I’m not disputing that any of those characters were villains, my guy, that’s my whole point. Whatever you “support” all you’re actually doing is sanding villains down. Censoring one fictional character insulting another won’t bring back the real dead. You would be insulting her to applaud such worthless gestures.
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I disagree.
When I played WC 3 as a kid way back in the day, before WoW was a thing, before I even heard of Internet forums - I remember playing through the WC 3 campaigns, and seeing an allegorical portrayal- or coding - of SA from Arthas towards Sylvanas. I viewed it as a video game portrayal of gender based violence expressed through a dark magical ritual.
Arthas saying that Sylvanas “vexed” him really bolstered that framing. That was in WC 3.
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He was saying “woman woman woman” all the time in the game, and Golden and Roux have added more creepy diatribes that weren’t there originally.
We all seem to be of the understanding that all of this is villainy. By Golden’s account it’s not there when he has a soul. Historically any young prince would enjoy a freely offered concubine with a clear conscience, where Arthas sensed and was repulsed by Blackmoore’s depravity.
I’ll never have sympathy or patience for this idea fictional villains should be barred from villainy because we don’t like villains in the real world.
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Golden isn’t a feminist writer. She claims to be to ride the wave of modern feminism now, but she’s actually one of the most misogynistic writers on the Warcraft team. She was the one who wrote Aedelas SAing and beheading teretha. She wrote Thrall as a chauvinist in Thrall: Twilight of the Aspects and Aggra as a black women trope.
Even in her most recent book she used male default language and other Goldenism.
The most feminist writer on the team, Robert Brooks left the team in September 2021. (yes, the most feminist writer on the team was a man. Don’t be too surprised)
I don’t necessarily want feminists writing a fantasy game. And I really don’t believe Golden is more misogynistic than Afrasiabi or even a younger Metzen.
Again with the “she wrote a villain doing evil” stuff. Why is this supposed to be a mark against her?
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I think it’s pretty hilarious that a guy manages to be the most feminist. What’d he write?
That’s your internalized bias. It can only improve the portrayal of both men and women. Feminism has always been about gender equality and fair representation.
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My internalized bias is that I don’t agree with your ideology, yeah. Thanks for the diagnosis.
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its not an ideology, but it’s good to know where you stand. Though I never doubted it. My intution on people is really good.
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It’s not an ideology, but don’t be surprised that a guy is the most feminist on a writing team with three prominent women. The man is a feminist and the woman has internalized misogyny. It’s not ideological. I have good intuition.
What’s your definition of feminism? why do you consider it an ideology that you don’t support? I think that’s a good question to ask because my idea of feminism and your idea of feminism may be completely different.
Do you believe men and women should have equal rights?
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I’m more curious about yours. I’m looking at Robert Brooks’ writing credits and I’m seeing Warbringers: Azshara. In my opinion this short essentially pretends a deeply villainous character was a hero, virtually the opposite of the original depiction of the same point in her life. This isn’t done by showing new context but by just depicting events in an entirely contradictory fashion.
I don’t know whether this is the kind of thing you have in mind when you talk about Brooks.
No actually, Brooks also wrote the Anduin/Varian comic Son of the Wolf where he explores masculinity. that’s why I think he’s a feminist writer. Though the “You are the God of nothing.” is quite the power fantasy line you’d expect from a girl power feminist and Azshara who respected no one but herself, not even a Titan or a God. Which I think is 100% in character with her vain self centered persona. Good villians exist. Arthas is a good villain, but he was also a tragic hero whose story should serve as a lesson.
I think Sylvanas also serves as a lesson. I have done a lot of self reflection thanks to her BFA and Shadowlands story. Especially with that cinematic where she’s forced to see the most evil part of herself and accept to take accountability for that part of herself and the unforgivable things she’s done.
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