I want to second this, I feel like he was the cause for so much devastation why is this even a discussion.
I’m not sure if this part is referring to me, and normally I don’t engage in the stuff beyond hoping the best for everyone involved I just want to say that I am friends w both sides, do I hope I have a positive impact of course I do I hope I positively impact everyone I am friends w I would never want to be friends w someone and spread negative energy.
I hope me being friends w you has been a positive thing too in both our lives because I value you as a person and we get along, but also just in terms of a support system & hopefully that all results as well as having better positive spaces in threads we all frequent & spaces we all share. And I hope the same thing in my friendship w Doness I appreciate Doness for standing up on important issues on GD I knew who he was even before I posted on the SF, and I don’t want this drama to obfuscate that.
I just want that to be clear, me letting you know I was going to be friends w Doness was simply setting that boundary that I want to be friends w both of you, and yes I do want to be a positive friend in all my friendships including ours, but that isn’t you sending me nor does it make it your idea. I probably should simply do what I want in that regard without trying to justify my friendships w people but I also saw expressing my intentions as setting that boundary that I just want to be friends w both of you and hope for the best in all situations.
I will always choose to hope for the best for everyone in situations that I discern it really just comes down to people having issues w each other.
That’s not really the convention of BFA’s dialogue. They keep calling the Capital City “Lordaeron,” (“You failed at Lordaeron”) as if it were the whole kingdom, and Stromgarde has had its territories pared away at for a lot longer. They were not top of the food chain when the Old Alliance crumbled. Camps such as Hammerfall would’ve been erected under Lordaeronian authority by order of the Lordaeronian king.
Frankly, the lore waffles on even the original Gilnean border, despite that kingdom getting an eponymous zone that encompasses its capital. It’s up in the air.
As per Exploring EK it a smoking piece of rubble and apperently haunted. So yeah, the canon state is what we see when the Alliance wins the warfront. On that note:
We have got to do what is right for story, and those are just some key old Alliance locations. And that is just what feels right for the world-Danuser
Seems like it is our win and Arathi just belongs to the Alliance. Especially with how Shaw effectively equate it and Stromgarde as being one and the same.
Basically because Sylvanas was the cause of a lot of devastation too, and pretty much the point of the stupid expansion they tore apart all the old lore for was “no one deserves the Maw, infinity is time to atone for any finite crime.” Good for the goose good for the gander in that respect.
That invites people to point out the narrative said Arthas’ soul was damaged, not unworthy - it’s Sylvanas stans calling him unworthy. And it gets people thinking Arthas and Sylvanas can be directly equivocated 1:1 which they really can’t. But they did both murder thousands and harm thousands more.
The warfront is your win. You have still not produced evidence that this extends to territory that is not included in the warfront. It’s all your conjecture, and no matter how likely you believe your conjecture to be, it’s still not evidence.
Per your own quote, Shaw says “this area.” He doesn’t specify exactly where the boundaries of “this area” are.
Let’s assume wow’s universe is supposed to be a collection of all possible alternate timelines from all possible starting positions. I don’t know that to be true, but whatever, I don’t think it’s really a requisite.
There’s a massive amount of strands where Arthas never comes to exist. Fine. In some though, Arthas comes to exist and die before MU Arthas dies. So, ostensibly, there were “Arthas” souls in the afterlife already.
When MU Arthas came to the afterlife, were they all yoinked to go join up with his thread which was dropped in the Maw?
Did they all get wrapped up together, so that the soul of Arthas that disappeared in a puff was actually the soul of MU Arthas and 4 billion other young Arthases kids?
And now that his soul has been smoked (ha), as you said, all of the other Arthases (Arthi?) who lived longer than him are actually so much better off because when they die, his soul is gone and they don’t get tied up with him.
Given an infinite number of ways this story plays out, there were some number of Arthi that died just prior to us freeing Anduin and therefore when they were tied to the MU Arthas, they became more of the dust in the wind. They experienced a brief entrance to the afterlife where they were entwined with the MU soul, used as a battery, and then disappeared into nothingness.
What I’m saying is, Shadowlands is/was pretty awful in general.
“This area” was specifically regarding the areas that was held by Strom.
Short answer, yes as per Danuser.
As per Turaylon’s claim the Alliance retook Stromgarde. you are free to believe it is just the city but the wording is most likely referring to the entire Nation. If it was just the city, it would have been referred to as Stromgarde keep, to make the distinction.
Assuming you are right and Hammerfall does still exist. My only hope is if it is ever brought up it is with the explicit goal of allowing the Alliance to permanently destroy it.
Everything included in the warfront was an area held by Stromgarde. That doesn’t mean that every area held by Stromgarde was retaken as a result. Especially when you’re using a word as vague as “area.” If he’d said “this kingdom,” I think your argument would carry more weight.
I do not agree that your reading is “most likely.” People make the distinction of city versus country when they are talking about both and want to keep them straight, but otherwise they frequently use the name interchangeably. As an example, people refer to Stormwind the city as “Stormwind” all the time, even though Stormwind is also the name of the kingdom.
Throughout the battle, he boasts about Stromgarde’s defenses. He also shows a heightened animosity towards Eitrigg, stating they do not belong in Stromgarde; the “rightful home of the Trollbanes”.[11] The battle ultimately ended in the Alliance’s favor.[12]
Dannath of all peopleseems unlikely to let the Horde to keep anything that did belong to Stromgarde. Which would include hammerfall.
So there’s a new kingdom of Stomgarde. I don’t think that’s in dispute. But there’s no proof that it has the same boundaries as the old one.
Just as the modern Alliance isn’t precisely the same as the Alliance of Lordaeron, and the New Horde isn’t exactly the same as the Old Horde, there’s no evidence that new Stromgarde is exactly the same as Old Stromgarde.
Do you understand that when you use the word “(un)likely,” you’re speculating? And that speculation is not evidence?
Just because Danath wants it doesn’t mean he got it. For all we know, that could be the next PvP battleground.
Sounds to me Dannath of all people would be trying to claim ever land that was once its border.
Again, Dannath of all people would want any and all lands that were Stromgarde back in his possession. I doubt he would stop at anything less.
Which is no more of a speculation that Hammerfall still stand especially considering the Alliance would want it destroyed and the Fourth War would have been the perfect time to do it.
Exploring EK also does not make mention of Hammerfall which leads me to belief Shaw does not thing it exist anymore. Especially considering he was talking about various threats to the alliance/making threat assessments during said journey.
Boy, this thread took a turn in the past few hours.
I think attempting to retake Arathi as a whole is a fool’s errand. Defending a keep isn’t bad, trying to hold an entire zone where your main supply route is sailing past Horde-held territory or crossing broken bridges seems pretty bad to me.
You’d have to make a serious push with a concerted Alliance effort to grab some undeveloped plains, of which the only thing of real use to you was already in your hands.
Yes. The difference between us is that I admit that it’s ambiguous. You’re the one who keeps pushing for your headcanon to be accepted by everyone. And I’m getting tired of talking to the brick wall.
