Hopefully they’ll carve out a new stronger kingdom for themselves, and realize they don’t need to antagonize their neighbors to do so. Fortify what they own, and hire some powerful necromancers to raise the dead from the graveyards they do own to supplement their numbers.
Or better yet, try to capture and rehabilitate the scourge who are feral now. 
it’s not that easy unfortunately.
The Alliance sees Horde expansion as a threat, we are not the antagnizers in most cases. the Horde hates necromancy, that was the whole reason Sylvanas had to remain secretive. They will not let her or any Forsaken raise the dead to suppliment the Forsaken population. The living would rather they die out completely.
We saw with Nathanos, that rehabillitating Scourge is not an easy process, I’m pretty sure the only reason why Nathanos was saved was because he had a loved one to do it. most Scourge are just mindless gouls at this point.
It’s a nice sentiment though.
It’s a shame the forsaken never learned True Necromancy from the Maldraxxi, or learned any of their fleshcrafting techniques. They wouldn’t need to raise any new undead than, because they would all be functionally immortal without worrying about their bodies withering to dust eventually
Unfortunately. The world would be a sexier place.
Indeed it would be 
I just wish Sylvanas had realized there was another option than the Jailer. when you unpack Shadowlands even a small amount you realize it negates everything that was previously known. Didn’t Guldan have to steal the headpiece on his staff from the Shadowlands to create the first Death Knights? didn’t he also realize that the undead were unable to be controlled without the use of Domination Magic? they never touched on that at all and that was always major Horde lore.
That I agree with. Honestly? This does more damage to horde lore overall than it does the alliance. The ONLY vague tie the alliance had to the Shadowlands was through Arthas, but he stopped being alliance once he became a death knight and than the Lich King.
So, the orcs and forsaken this entire time were being manipulated by the Jailer through his Dreadlord agents within the legion. It’s all soo stupid when people actually stop to think about it.
interesting that you would bring this up. Detheroc was the one who posed as Mathias Shaw in Legion and gave Genn and Adrimal Rogers intel about Sighting Sylvanas’s ships heading to Stormhiem. i wish that was more clear in the lore but the Dreadlords actually started the 4th war with Genn.
People who didn’t play the Legion Rogue Order hall missed this huge piece of story lore. When Mal’ganis was talking about how Detheroc failed in the Venthyr quest, he was talking about how he failed to infiltrate the Alliance completely as Shaw, causing more damage from inside the Alliance.
It still makes Tyrande look stupid that Belmont is even alive at all right now.
The Dreadlords apparently were working for the Jailer to set up the Forth War, yeah. Varimathras taunts the Horde about Mueh’zala making Sylvanas Warchief, and reinforced Detheroc’s idea to the Alliance that Sylvanas betrayed Varian.
I suspect they could even have it be now that Varimathras took the fall at the Undercity in Wrath on purpose to both undermine Sargeras and throw everyone off from thinking the Dreadlords were influencing Sylvanas.
This is a deep rabbit hole. The jist is the Dreadlords were pretending to work with Sylvanas on behalf of the Jailer, but also working against her to ensure that she believed the jailer. Unpacking this makes me have more sympathy for Sylvanas because she was played by both the Dreadlords and the Jailer.
Alternatively though, the Old Gods also took and interest in her and they made some prophesies that ended up proving that they also saw Sylvanas as thier own agent against the Jailer. so I can’t wait for that to be further explored, when we unpack more BFA lore when we meet Xal’atath again.
I’ve been following this thread for a while. Zul the Prophet, exiled after the Cataclysm because Rastakhan was getting too annoyed by his prophecies about Deathwing, and because he kept telling Rastakhan the Zanadalari empire would fall. He goes to the Sandfury tribe who worship Mueh’zala and stays with them for years. He pops up out of nowhere in the Alliance Stockades with Talanji, (How? where was the set up for this?) Sylvanas sends Nathanos and team to inflitrate the Stockades to recover her asset (Zul) but we are mislead that it’s actually Talanji because the Horde needs a fleet. Nathanos ditches us says he will meet us and flies towards Westfall (it’s never explained who he was going to meet and why.) Later in BFA Azshara leaves Xal’atath on the beach for the horde adventurer to find and bring back to Sylvanas. We find out in letters that Zul facilitated this metting between Sylvanas and Azshara. Sylvanas delivers Azshara, Lady Ashvane, and Nathanos uses Xal’atath as a compas to lead the Horde and Alliance to Nazjatar. Nathanos says he has a meeting and walks into a wall of water, presumably to deliver Xal’atath back to Azshara, because she has it later.
All of these things were orchestrated by N’Zoth. All of these threads seem incoherent and leading nowhere, unless N’Zoth isn’t actually dead and the theories that he planned to get trapped in the blade, or make it look like that are true.
it’s not her fault she doesn’t know that undead don’t need to breathe, she locked Belmont in ice and told him to “chill out” then she tried to choke Sylvanas to death she’s 0/2.
It’s even more aggravating that she gives a speech about having let Saurfang live being a mistake just moments before leaving Belmont alive as well.
I guess a priestess of Life can’t go around killing everyone.
Blizzard was being coy about who was responsible. So while you had a fair amount of people maintaining that it was Sylvanas based on the picture, even more had others theories like the night elves doing it, albeit after evacuating everyone, to deny the Horde the island or one that I, and plenty of other people picked, thought that it was Queen Azshara seeking to keep the faction war going as apart of N’Zoth’s plans.
Suffice to say, there was alot more outrage over “I knew it” or “I told you so” when it was revealed that it was Sylvanas gave the order because after Legion, there was alot of trust towards Blizzard and the coyness about it all just felt really asinine.
It actually didn’t strike me as odd. I took that moment as Saurfang himself basically saying that he will no longer blindly and loyally serve Warchiefs, of which he’s served both good and bad, but act by his own sense of honor. And while he did initially seek an honorable end, he also discarded that and got his revolution going to save the Horde before realizing that his death* could be the best way in which prevent the Horde from spilling Horde blood.
*He genuinely didn’t believe would survive the Mak’gora against Sylvanas but preserved forward as he couldn’t bring himself to have the Horde fight one another.
Now when it comes to giving one’s life for Saurfang’s concept of honor and loyally dying under Sylvanas, there actually is alot more nuanced involved. For one honor is subjective based on someone in question either because they follow a cultural honor or have their own code of honor. Case in point Nazgrim’s honor in Mists compelled him to stand with the Warchief till the end, where as Thrall’s personal honor saw him stand against Sylvanas and side with Saurfang.
So while honor can be viewed as loyalty, it can also be seen as a choice of the individual in question. On the flip side loyalty itself can be seen as a honor or in the die hard cases, demonstrated by the True Horde for example, as zealotry.
In the end, it really depends on the person and how they perceived honor, loyalty, and the difference between the two.
That’s doubtful, the Sylvanas novel heavily implies that he is acting out of jealousy against Sylvanas. The moment the coup starts, Varimathras is all “I shall be the one to herald the master’s victory, not you!” and Sylvanas is so confused but more focused on getting out of the UC.
It really disappointed me that when she meets Mal’Ganis, she didn’t bring this up to him. After all since there was a moment where Sylvanas was helped by a random Forsaken woman, prior to Varimathras and Putress trying to kill her, that easily could have been revealed to be another nathrezim. Thus Sylvanas, who did become aware that Zovaal had his eyes on her prior when they met in person, could have seen that as a sign that “Hey Zovaal was looking out for me, he does genuinely want and value me as a partner.”
The fact that Ashenvale is apparently still partially under Horde control makes me roll my eyes at this quote.
Except they did, all thoughout Garrosh and Sylvanas respective reigns. Hell, Vol’jin threatened to throw us to Sylvanas so she could raise our dead:
Oh, ya got anudda plan? I got anudda plan, too. I let ya siege Orgrimmar on ya own. See how far ya get. An’ once da city be filled wit’ corpses, den me shadow hunters come in, we mop up what left, kill Kor’kron an Alliance alike. Give ya dead ta Sylvanas.
Sylvanas novel is Sylvanas telling stories to Anduin that Sylvanas wants him to hear. It is one of the strangest unreliable narrator works we have in Warcraft.
Sorry Zerde but you miss quoted me there, I said
In most cases, the exception being Ashenvale, as that’s where the Horde is killing Night Elves for lumber. If you read later into this thread I point out that the Horde are antagonists in mostly all PVP scenarios.
Let’s see what else you selectively want to respond to, ah yes, an empty threat from Vol’jin without context, hand picked from Vol’jin’s wow wiki page. 
it’s almost like… you’ve never played Horde but want to sound like you know Vol’jin so well.
It’s zerde, what did you expect? I figured it was a matter of time before he cherry picked your conversations with me and others, take them out of context, add his own version of events and still get it mostly wrong.
But seriously, usually the alliance does something by continually poking the horde, and the horde than overcompensates in their retaliation, leading to a major war breaking out.
The game really doesn’t do a good job of presenting the Horde as these people that are just trying to make good of a bad situation but the Alliance just wont let the past be and goes after them. But rather aggressive conquerors who embody the criticism the most hateful of characters like Daelin level against them.
it’s just really, bad considering they don’t want the horde to be this evil faction. Whenever Alliance does something bad there is like 12 different reasons why they have a good reason for it and how actually the Horde kinda of started it.
I can’t believe he’s trying to say that the Horde doesn’t have a problem with Sylvanas raising undead. that’s the reason why she has to do it in secret. Garrosh called her a b over it and tasked Cromush to watch over her while she does it. Lorthemar tells her she absolutely cannot raise Blood Elven dead (she does so anyway behind his back) what part of Vol’jin’s “I have never trusted you.” speech gave him the impression Vol’jin is best buddies with Sylvanas? 