As part of many ongoing arguments, I’d like some clarification. We have a blue post stating that GDKPs do not violate the ToS. The new argument from those who are dogmatically opposed to GDKPs is that they are a boosting service, rather than a loot system, and must therefore be posted in trade instead of LFG.
I believe this is an attempt to justify bullying behavior and false reporting. I’d appreciate clarification on the matter.
EDIT for context:
The current debate elsewhere in the forums is over whether or not GDKPs are to be considered a transactional service or as a loot system. There are players who insist GDKPs are exclusively or near-exclusively a pay-for-carry system, but other players have a different notion, and suggest that GDKPs aren’t a direct buy-sell transaction by virtue of distributing gold amongst other raiders rather than paying for items directly to a player to pocket.
In retail, you can only advertise GDKP, boosts, and carries ONLY in the /Trade Services channel. It has to be on a character that is participating in the run and must be for gold only. No outside websites or such can be included.
As for classic, SoD, or anything other than retail, I can’t comment because I don’t play those versions and I’m unsure if the /Trade Services channel exists.
I’m searching for something that confirms in the form or a blue post or policy. I’ll post as soon as I find something, but it may be tomorrow.
But, I have been around this forum long enough to know, and have seen blue posts, that confirms that GDKP, Boosts, and Carries are allowed as long as they are for gold only. But these runs are not supported by Blizzard. Players run them at their own risk. If a player is scammed, Blizzard will do very little to intervene. I have seen instances where the “scammer” may receive a penalty or ban, but the player that was scammed does not receive their gold back. If they run GDKP and receive purchased gold, they may receive an account penalty.
I also appreciate a greater understanding of the implications of, “not supported.”
It’d be nice to know for certain if GDKPs are to be considered a service - therefore belonging in trade - or simply a loot system, therefore belonging in LFG, even if it means I have to eat crow in the SoD forums. My first reaction was that players were looking to abuse the report system to falsely report GDKP ads.
What I’m having trouble with is:
Individuals and guilds selling boost or assistance in raiding, dungeon, or PvP activities for gold is allowed but can only be advertised in-game through the Trade Services chat channel.
As GDKPs are not (to my knowledge) inherently a boost or carry service, but rather a means of offering players gold if they didn’t get their item. A confirmation one way or another would be fantastic.
The only thing I can add is from a logical standpoint and not from a personal knowledge standpoint.
It seems logical that a player buying gear for gold in a GDKP run is not capable of raiding on their own, with friends, or with their guild, and therefore are looking to get gear in some other way. Those offering GDKP runs are normally well geared, experienced players that can clear a raid instance with their group and a few “carries” in there. That would put GDKP and “carries” in the same category.
This is the reason for the debate and request for clarification, really.
The assertion is that GDKPs exist because they provide a handful of structural benefits for the participants, and don’t exist explicitly or even mostly as a carry service; giving geared players an incentive to run with fresher players which helps fresher players get gear and experience, alleviating burnout by offering something for the time/effort put in if you don’t win your gear piece, give randos/pugs a reason to stay mindful throughout the run and not check out mentally or entirely if they don’t get their piece, etc.
I guess then it would vary by group and intent, and the appropriate channel would vary by specific group.
As of now, players advertising GDKP runs in trade are getting reported for spam because they’re posting LFG in Trade, and players advertising GDKPs in LFG are getting reported for posting services/boosting in LFG, even if that particular run doesn’t meet the definitions outlined as boosting/carry above.
Granted, it seems the players who are against GDKPs existing will continue to report them regardless of channel compliance, as they tend to take a dogmatic moral stance against their existence. I’m sure those who do enjoy running GDKPs would appreciate knowing exactly where they need to be posting, if only to have a leg to stand on against false reports.
Because LFG is a channel to recruit people for runs that are looking to fill a group. Absolutely nothing BUT normal groups gathering should be posted in LFG. People still feel the need to chit-chat and spam the channel and then get surprised when they’re suspended for it.
GDKPs are a service you are selling.
Here is a previous post with this referenced and notated with several other posts in regards to the topic.
If they’re ONLY posting in Trade, then they’re being dinged for spamming the channel too often. It doesn’t matter how fast the channel motors by, it can still be considered spamming if they’re advertising too often. It can also be the message itself, if it’s one of those that are overly * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * or the like. Or all caps. Spam can touch many aspects of what message is being posted.
That’s what I’m having a hard time with. GDKPs don’t strike me as selling a service, but rather a raid group coming together to form their own loot system. If the master looter was pocketing the gold, that’d make more sense.
Still, if that’s the general consensus of the Customer Support forum, I guess I’ll have to take it as such unless a blue chimes in or someone unearths an old blue post on the subject.
In the post I linked there was a post where another CS regular provided the information about only being able to post services in Trade (for non-retail iterations) that had a Blue come in and thank them, stating that what had been provided was correct.
This is precisely why Blizzard intentionally leaves things vague. Digging for loopholes.
This is covered in the Advertising policy Cyntaria provided 12 hours ago:
Individuals and guilds selling boost or assistance in raiding, dungeon, or PvP activities for gold is allowed but can only be advertised in-game through the Trade Services chat channel.
I know what GDKPs are. YOU may not feel like they’re not boosts/carries, choosing instead to classify them as guild events with special looting rules, but there is only a slender thread that separates one from the other. They’re covered by the same rules and limitations.
They aren’t boosts/carries. Flat out. That simply isn’t what they are.
If Blizzard wants to treat them as a service belonging in trade, fine - but GDKPs are not a boost/carry service.
That isn’t searching or reaching for a loophole, that’s simply not what they are conceptually.
People are joining in on a run where drops can/will be sold to the highest bidder. The only difference I’m seeing as that boosts/carries is that folks can either freely roll on loot or they’ve got people who will funnel drops to them. There are transactions involved across the board. It is still classified as a service.
Namely that GDKPs pool gold across a group of raiders each expected to perform if they didn’t get the drop, rather than direct take-home profits from players carrying.
I can appreciate that due to an exchange of gold happening at all that it’d fall under trade-chat, I don’t mean to seem argumentative for its own sake, and thank you for your continued replies on the matter.
Regardless of my own take, consensus is consensus - I just wish Blizzarrd would make it clear because of the sheer volume of people openly admitting to false reporting and harassing players that Blizzard has said aren’t breaking rules.
People say a lot of things. It doesn’t make them true. A lot of it tends to be hot air.
People advertising GDKPs is fine - so long as it’s being done in the proper place as well as following standard CoC/ToS rules for spamming.
You could get reported by your entire server for your mog. So long as you’re not breaking any rules - the only thing that may happen is a temporary squelch in cases of social reporting. Past that minor thing, NOTHING happens if you’re not breaking any rules. It’s still against the rules to spam any channel. Just because chat is rolling fast and there have been 50 other posts in 30 seconds between your advertisements, does not make one immune to being dinged for spamming. There is no hard and fast rule for how many minutes must pass between posts, that kind of thing is weighed by what the realm is reporting.
[Edit]Our sleepy panda has locked the thread, but going to tack this in.
Thank you for being open to the discourse and discussion of things. Too often these threads derail into nastiness, so it is very much appreciated.
There are some practices in game that get a lot of peoples’ dander up and a lot of the time most of the information being slung about is nothing but rumors or outright untruths and misinformation. Multiboxing and GDKPs/Boosting/Carrying are the biggest of them. The information that comes from this forum at least, is information that has been vetted by history and what our SFAs have been allowed to relay along.
I’ve seen several of the posts over in SoD when it’s been late at night and I’ve been unable to sleep. It’s pretty much the same conversations that have taken place in the Classic GD/Progressive Classic GD/SoM and even in the Retail GD. There will always be people who are vehemently against this or that.
Play the game as you enjoy it, so long as it is within the perimeters set by Blizzard.
If there is any question about those perimeters, you’ll find people here on CS who are happy to help and without the biases coloring opinions.
