You don’t seem to understand. I’m talking about statements made outside the game. Interviews. Conventions. Twitter posts. Conversations someone had drinking a beer out on the street with so and so employee. Anything like that made by Steve Danuser which then leads someone to tell me “According to Steve Danuser” is not authoritative to me. I have already bitten the bullet to say that the stuff put “in the game” by whoever… Danuser, Afrasiabi, whoever… is stuff I will have to deal with as canon; because that’s what canon means. In spite of how difficult it is because it is inconsistent with previous in game lore, I have to deal with it. But not so for comments in interviews or at conventions or twitter posts “outside the game”. I have no obligation to treat Afrasiabi’s comments in an interview about Sylvanas as canon, for example. His thoughts were not in game.
You didn’t mention any story beats. You mentioned an outside interview claim by Danuser that never made it in game. Probably because it doesn’t make sense in game and is contradictor or inconsistent with what he actually put in game during Shadowlands.
No such lore in game exists. Your outside of game quote of Dave Kosak only confirms that the game does not say what they said in the convention.
For the third time… I’m not referring to the raid time travel intervention. I’m referring to the “ACTUAL” Battle of Mount Hyjal. The one that happened without interference. The one where entire Human and Orc and Night Elf armies rallied to defeat him. No mention. Seeing Khadgar at the battle in the Hellfire Citadel Raid? No reaction, no response. As if he was never there on any world where Humans caused his greatest defeat.
I feel like you may be arguing with a brick wall, unfortunately.
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I noticed that you didn’t comment on the fact the rest of my statement there. Our Kil’jaeden talked to AU Gul’dan on AU Draenor and our Azeroth. The only way AU Gul’dan talking to the same Kil’jaeden makes sense if it is One Legion, thus one Kil’jaeden, which means one Archimonde. Who Blizzard currently has as dead, which is sourced on the wiki, which means that Archimonde was defeated at the end of War3, resurrected, and then died at the end of WoD.
Furthermore another look at Chronicle Volume 4 does reference that the heroes had faced Archimonde before, with the narrative making it clear it’s the same Archimonde.
https://warcraft.wiki.gg/wiki/Archimonde
That’s my final word on it. I’m done debating, believe whatever you want.
I see that now and have said my last piece on it.
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You didn’t list any fact, you started with an opinion and then listed another opinion. The alternate Gul’Dan does not have any evidence of any communication with our Kil’Jaeden until he was already here, on our Azeroth…sent through the portal which already connected to our Azeroth. Him being told to go find the body of Illidan here in our Azeroth once he was on our Azeroth does not say anything about that other Archimonde from a different universe. A wiki is not a source. Chronicle 4 is not a source. Given the separate threads and overall reaction by lore buffs everywhere on the internet… the illogical and inconsistent and contradictory things written in Chronicle 4 make it completely unreliable as a source for anything. If the Chronicle 4 said that water was wet, we would need an outside opinion.
Honestly Archimonde probably didn’t take much notice to the humans. They were the first to fall to him and only Jaina made an impression on him. Unlike the Orcs that freed themselves from Mannoroth or the Night Elves that defied the Legion 10k years ago. I would imagine Archimonde would be even more angry at Malfurion over the humans for stopping him. The only thing that made the humans a problem for the Burning Legion was them defeating the Orcish Horde. And the scourge rolled over them like a plague (pun fully intended) once Arthas was claimed. Likewise with the High Elves. Cenarius and the Night Elves were the bigger threat in his eyes. The Orcs were just pieces that needed to be placed on their side of the board as they still had a use. Even if Mannaroth did not believe it.
For all we know. He has established that he isn’t on Argus. Absent that, searching the “universe” is a pretty impossible task. Where do you start?
Velen is immortal, and Draenei in general live very long. So I don’t know why he can’t start regardless. Maybe start interrogating some high-ranking demons?
Start where? Unless his son is incased in amber, or otherwise immoble, he may well move around “the universe” faster than you can search it.
And his people need him. So the smart thing to do is have some people out to start looking and he guides the Draenei.
Impossible… given that Humans were directly part of his downfall, and his master Sargeras was inhabiting a human body just before that Archimonde defeat. Unless you’re going to claim that Humans exist on many planets outside Azeroth and never have any connection to Azeroth humans… then nah, I repeat my earlier statements.
Truthfully? If that was the case there would have been no need for the legion to send the scourge to the Eastern Kingdoms first to weaken the human nations there and wipe them out before heading to Kalimdor.
I wouldn’t call 15ish years “just before”. Sargeras was not in possession of Medivhs body during the third war.
That is kinda my point though. The Humans of Lordaeron defeated the Orcs but they fell so easily to the scourge that what little showed up on Hyjal would be unnoticed by Archimonde. I mean he even mocks Jaina about that.
Archimonde: You are very brave to stand against me, little human. If only your countrymen had been as bold, I would have had more fun scouring your wretched nations from the world!
https://warcraft.wiki.gg/wiki/Twilight_of_the_Gods_(WC3_NightElf)
Also iirc the Legion more or less blamed the Orcs for their own defeat. Given that Gul’dan did cost them the victory they were about to have. Free will and all that. Hence the mindless armies of the scourge. Bound to one will and that one will was under constant guard. Remember, if Gul’dan did not betray the Horde at the last minute, the Horde would’ve won.
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Then in Legion you went back to Draenor for mining quest to mess with his corpse and in that quest they mentioned he died on Draenor. Apparently the developers didn’t know whether they wanted him to die permanently and did this back end quest to put a monkey wrench on the claim that Archimonde was dead for good.
warcraft.wiki. gg/wiki/Hellfire_Citadel:_Hellfire_and_Brimstone
wait is this a meme or real?
cant even keep up with demon lore its almost as bad as undeath at this point
So that wasn’t Lord Jaraxxus we see in the Broken Shore scenario at the start of Legion? You know, Lord Jaraxxus of EREDAR LORD OF THE BURNING LEGION fame?
Lord Jaraxxus yells: We return.
https://warcraft.wiki.gg/wiki/The_Battle_for_Broken_Shore_(quest)
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They aren’t the same.
The Exodar has a 3D museum on demons including Eredar. Valen knew that if Rakeesh died during our encounter he wasn’t coming back. He even attacks the player to try to stop it and when the deed is done he is in mourning.
So whatever the story is with others, Valen, who ought to know the subject matter is convinced that Rakeesh’s death is as permanent
Okay. You can go into the fan-fiction corner with Vanadoc
I absolutely would call it just before. Archimonde had been crusading throughout planets all over the great dark for at least 13,000 years… the difference between a first war on the world which his master used a Human body to invade, and the third war on that same planet where he was using a Human paladin boy to invade is nothing… a blink of an eye. It may as well be the exact same campaign in that time scale.
Thus you just invalidated your own objection. Archimonde did mock Jaina back at that real Battle for Mount Hyjal… and then those very same Humans succeeded in defeating him. It is not possible for him to then show up in WoD and not make any comment, not have any reaction… to it being Humans killing him yet again. Therefore it wasn’t again. Because that isn’t the same Archimonde.
It was actually Ner’zhuls idea to corrupt Arthas. Archimonde didn’t care how the invasion would begin, just that it would begin. It is why he was getting impatient which had the Dreadlords panicking. They felt that Ner’zhul was playing his own game but they were too deep into it to back out.
Anetheron: Is everything proceeding as planned, Tichondrius? Lord Archimonde demands a report on the Scourge.
Tichondrius: The Lich King’s young death knight has been performing well… almost too well. I begin to wonder if Ner’zhul has ulterior motives for his new… champion.
Mephistroth: The human means nothing in the long run. Ner’zhul wouldn’t dare undermine our efforts now.
Anetheron: Our only concern is that the Scourge accomplishes what it was created to do. Archimonde will have all our heads if we do not keep control of this situation!
Tichondrius: Believe me, brother. Neither the Lich King nor his undead lackeys will
Anetheron: See that they do not. Lord Archimonde has little patience for failure.
https://warcraft.wiki.gg/wiki/The_Dreadlords_Convene_(WC3_Undead)
Why would they be concerned that Ner’zhul had ulterior motives if Archimonde was actually in control? Why would they say that Arthas meant nothing in the long run if Arthas was to be their [the legions] herald?
For Archimonde he would’ve singled that defeat on Malfurion. After all it was his trap to begin with. You are acting like Jaina and her forces were the main ones Archimonde wanted to defeat. They weren’t. And again, Khadgar had nothing to do with it so why would he react to his presence? I highly doubt the only thing he cared about from his defeat was, “I would’ve gotten away with it if it weren’t for those meddling human survivors!!!”
I didn’t say it was Archimonde’s “idea”… I said he was using Arthas. A human. This does not change by you trying to pretend I said something else and attacking what you invented. If a butler shows up and gives me a butter knife for an arts and crafts task…I’m using the butter knife, it doesn’t matter if the butter knife was not my idea.
I don’t care what nathrezim are concerned by… as I didn’t say anything about nathrezim. Yet again you are inventing something I didn’t say and then attacking what you created.
Never said any such thing. For the seventh time… stop inventing things I did not say and attacking those. Archimonde was defeated by Orcs and Humans and Night Elves at the Battle for Mount Hyjal in our universe in our timeline. The Archimonde that we saw in WoD in another universe made no reaction whatsoever when confronted with Humans and Orcs…not even once, to his previous defeat at their hands. The end. It is undeniable, irrefutable.