People in the beginning such as Akiyass were supporting the murder of civilians while claiming the murder of civilians in Teldrassil was bad, that is my problem with her. And I think at some point there was a argument I made that the Alliance would have done worse if the Horde had not pushed them out which some people disagreed with. And of course you have antagonists like Lithya and many others who did not even try to debate but immediately went with the ‘just a troll’ card.
I mean, you can go back through the thread and look at my statements and bring up whatever you disagree with. I am more then willing to debate it out. But it always annoys me when people use the ‘Lol! TROLL!’ thing.
Here are my stances that I have made known while here:
-If Teldrassil was bad, so was Dazar’alor (not saying it was worse, saying it is bad)
-untrained, shoddily equipped civilians are no threat to heavily armored, heavily armed, magic-slinging, experienced commandos.
-Dark Iron attacked Civilians and blocked their exits and even went as far as to chase civilians (but are stopped by a Captain or other right at the raid entrance from further pursuit and Grong ( a mindless beast) was unleashed on a residential area.
-The Alliance would have done worse if given the chance, a opinion I formed together from multiple lines that Gelbin and Genn stated as well as the actions of the people in the raid from both sides.
Yes, I did. So? Not sure what that has to do with anything. Are you going to claim that these merchants and civilians were trained in the stances of Peter Von Danzif and Fiore Dei Liberi?
As far as what they would and wouldn’t have done, that’s really up for debate. As my thread stated, Genn’s dialogue is much different from the alliance perspective. He basically begs Rastakhan to surrender. On the horde side, Genn basically demands that we be allowed to abduct rasta’s daughter, and calls him a beast. That’s… a lot different.
Something is up with the dialogue. Check out the thread I created about it. It seems like blizzard went with the telephone game when they had your NPC recount the events of what happened to you. Its almost like they were trying to get this reaction out of horde members.
Not sure how any of that has to do with the fact that medieval, human-forged, realistic armor was nigh impossible to penetrate, which is why war-pikes and hammers were so popular, because they could ignore the dense armor and still cause damage to the wearer, that shoddy daggers would have no chance at penetrating: plate or even a chainmail and gambeson mix. Just because I don’t know anything about stances doesn’t mean I don’t know anything about metallurgy.
Yes, but I am not talking about the telegraphed stuff, I am using Genn’s line in the early part of the raid, where he justifies the slaughter of the Zandalari as ‘they deserve it because horde.’ and Gelbin stating on Horde side, which he says, no narrator tells us about this, that: This primitive pyramid is now property of the Alliance, turn back now, Horde brutes.
Which leads me to believe that the Alliance had no intention of leaving Dazar’alor until after the Horde and Zandalari troops showed up and forced their way through any barricade they set up.
Also, if my OP seemed a bit aggressive, I apologize, I did not mean it to come off as such, was just bothered with how people seem to excuse the murder of civilians when their faction does it and gets morally outraged when the opposing faction does it.
I know how that sounds, but he’s a gnome. Some of our alliance cities probably seem primitive to him. I wouldn’t read too much into him saying that. Just like i don’t read too much into Eitrigg all of a sudden calling us alliance dogs after actually coming to respect us after being BFF’s with Tirion Fordring.
Daggers are not shoddy, in fact, daggers were developed specifically to pierce armor. Sure, not to the same effectiveness as war picks and maces, but still. “No chance at penetrating” is a funny way to describe something that was specifically design to penetrate armor… Again, you are revealing how little you actually know.
Him calling it primitive is not my main concern, but claiming that it now belongs to the Alliance. I was just trying to quote him as accurately as possible.
A random knife picked up by a civilian does not equal the same thing as rondel daggers who you said were meant to penetrate armor. I agreed that if it were a rondel dagger I would agree, but what the Zandalari wield are not Rondel Daggers and they aren’t up against just your average, man-made armor, but armor made by the best blacksmiths around.
You ever hear the saying, “you meet an unpleasant man in the morning, you met an unpleasant man. If everyone you meet is an unpleasant man, YOU’RE the unpleasant man.”
And I asked for sources, because metal against metal does not work that way, considering hardened steel would not be penetrated so easily, and even if we assume it did, beneath that armor would either be chainmail to slow the dagger further or gambeson which is also difficult to cut through. At most, the dagger would probably knick the skin a bit, not really dangerous unless it were poisoned, and those were market goes, not assassins, so I doubt they had a spare vial of poison lieing around. And then the dagger is near useless because pulling it out would be a major pain, as said, watch the link I sent you on medieval armor (realistic medieval armor, not even the enchanted, super-metal Dark Iron kind).
Weird then how not everyone I meet is unpleasant, on other threads I have no problems like this, even Zaltaan has proven to be more understandable then you at this point. And even though I disagree with Akiyass, at least she is debating me rather then JUST calling me a troll.
Yeah, holding the city hostage, militarily, would have been the right strategy for us. Could have ended the war quickly. So i get why he’d say that. I doubt the goal was just to kill rastabro and scurry away, though that’s the way it happened.
Honestly, when you think about it, this wasn’t really an alliance victory. You fought us back, retook the city, “killed” the gnomish leader, and gave jaina a booboo she complains about, but no one really notices when she’s not complaining.
We lost this battle lol. Why does lore treat it like we won?
Because the writers are dumb? I don’t get why the Lore says the Alliance is suddenly winning either, considering that Genn was all like: We are sending farmers next. And sure, you might have destroyed half the fleet, but now the Horde has the other part of the fleet and a superior air force and ground force. Believe me… I don’t get it either… doesn’t help that Bainduin Bloodwrynn also basically made out entire 8.0 War campaign useless.
You still used a dagger to attack chinks in the armor. However, with the strength of a Troll put behind the attack, penetrating plate shouldn’t be an issue. And assuming that they couldn’t penetrate, another reason why daggers were popular is for extra control. When a dagger deflects off the breastplate, it veers left or right, toward the armpit, which is a vital place for a dagger. This is why Paldrons replaces spaulders and why they introduced couters.
I have never seen a couter in Warcraft, so… oopsie.
Historically, daggers were extremely deadly. Most fights between knights would end up on the ground, where the knights would try and slip a dagger through the chinks and/or visor.
And considering the toughness of dwarves would counter that strength immediately as well as the fact that it isn’t normal hardened steel, this is a heavily-enchanted armor wielded by the Dark Iron elite. the same people who create siege-engines. Versus a peasant with a pig-sticker. Unless you wish to make the argument that the dagger was obviously enchanted?
You mean after you spammed reported and told her to go hug a tree for arbitrary reasons? Yeah, how could I ever have come to the conclusion that you’re a troll? If not a troll, just violently out of touch.
After she reported me for stupid reasons, yes, and after she joined you with your trolling attempts at which point I refused to acknowledge her until she decided to actually debate me unlike a certain person here.
…. Yes, because the need to penetrate armor is not relevant to a fight between peasants. Point is, a dagger is a deadly weapon against armored opponents… because is was a go-to weapon for even trained fighters.
…. A trained fighter wouldn’t use an ineffective weapon. So, the dagger must be an effective weapon against armor…
…. Idk how I can make this simpler for you.
The toughness man in the world is going to cry like a baby when they are stabbed in the gut…
Source?
Steel is steel, in fact, steel can become so hard that it becomes brittle.
Stupid reasons? You were acting like a condescending and unpleasant twit, and just generally peppering your “debate” with personal insult to begin with. If anyone deserves to have their thread 404’d, it’s you. But hey, go ahead and keep duking it out, sonny boyo.