You have zero parses for Amirdrasil so no you dont.
I thought you didn’t need parses to know what you’re talking about? Or is that only you and your cohorts?
Also, that was until they changed the parameters on me.
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You literally just said you parse green with 5 fps yet you have zero parses LUL.
No one changed the parameters. You just took multiple Ls.
This could be helpful for all who want the water elemental pet:
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No, no. They did. First it was how tied the pet is to the spec and we showed how the Elly was. Which in turn made you argue so vehemently it was pure damage output of what a third party website called pets and permanence was irrelevent; so we said fine, but that means only three specs meet that criteria. Which hilariously meant the only real pet class throughout WoW’s history was Hunter. However, you then said it was the former perameters again. Which is it? Pure pet damage or how tied the pet is with the spec?
Oh, forgot only your word is takable without proof.
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Thank you. And thank you more for showing mages summoning water elementals in lore.
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Yes you were proven wrong via multiple logs on what is and isnt a pet spec and even admitted frost wasnt a petspec where I quoted it.
Its both. I never said the pets had to be PERMANET pets.
You mean the lack of proof of you having logs?
You claimed you parse green yet have zero logs in amirdrassil.
Yup, just like we do currently with icy veins.
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Dude, just leave him. He’s lost. If someone believes him at some point, that’s on them. Who knows if the devs even read these forums. I’m not happy with this and i’m struggling to move on. And i also clearly wrestled in the mud when i shouldn’t have.
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Im not the one whos lost. You both are lost and ignoring the facts presented.
They dont.
Who gets this emotional over a spec design?
Dude, you’re arguing with the equivalent of a brick wall here. No amount of logic will change their minds, and there’s nothing new that can be said on the subject after 6 months. It’s a dead topic, which is why the same 2 active players (at least one of whom threatened to quit when 10.1.5 came out) keep bumping it and catching a new person in their loop. What’s more is that the algorithm that Blizz uses will pick this thread up and say to someone there “this thread is popular, it might be a contentious issue” when the reality is that no one really cares outside of the 2 players.
WE is gone, and if we’re lucky it, along with ROP, will never come back.
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I know, but hopefully one day they’ll see logic.
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The irony while you continue ignoring the facts 
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Once again, it was the 2nd and 1st best mage spec in those logs. While in MoP it was the worst. The two combined that worst mage spec and dead bottom pretty much shows I’m right.
I don’t use this fallacy, I showed you multiple logs which prove I’m right. You are the one argued “wElL lOoK a LoT oF pLaYeRs PlAyEd FrOsT sO iT mUsT hAvE bEeN A pVe SpEc”
Oh look:
A lot of players were playing fire on Ragnaros too! Does this make fire a viable raiding choice for the first raid tier in vanilla?
Before Legion, every single expansion, every single raid tier Frost is
- Bottom tier
- Worst mage spec, since both fire and arcane is much better for PvE
After Legion frost is there with Arcane and Fire with its performance, meaning Blizz figured out Frost’'s issue with PvE that held it back, namely the “being frozen/shatter” on bosses.
Then let’s get the crayons.
The class’ main source of damage comes from he pet- Did not meet.
The class has multiple pets for different situations. - DID not meet
talents interact with the pet, or the pet itself has talents- Did not meet
Your rotation not necessarily interact with the pet, but enhances it. Did not meet(Having One waterjet for every 20 sec doesn’t count my dude, also you are kinda walked into my trap cause:
Waterjet was removed in BFA for example.
Therefore the log where I showed you, it was only giving you 5% of your total damage.
Also Water Jet only gave FoF procs:
Therefore your claim " being at least 20%(15% waterbolt; 5% procs being lenient[BFA not-withstanding as GS made all other spells do less than 10%" is a total BS
It only did 5% damage throughout the entire fight.
Therefore: Pet has a significant job in dealing, like 40-50%± point is not checked.
Since Frost mage does not check most of these, therefore not a Pet Class.
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Zerida with the mic drop
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Until you get into BfA where Frost literally falls to the bottom again. The “fix” they did in Legion was undone the moment the got rid of our insane amount of procs. Hell, just look at your precious “point making” BoD as reference. Not only is it there at the bottom of the Mage specs on the whole raid statistics, but you get to watch it gradually drop there as you look through the bosses. Cruciable of Storms? Dead last; maybe beating Fire on first boss. Eternal Palace? Same thing. If you say it’s because “FiRe wAs bOrKeN!!” explain to me how Frost is dead last in Amidrassil, still middle of the pack in Aberrus, and only barely beats out Fire for dead last in Vault.
So I reiterate, just because it’s at the bottom does not make it PvP spec. MoP was the first expansion to bring Frost into PvE, and make it a viable PvE spec. It’s just unfortunate that Hunters got shafted with two PvP specs.
Fixed that statement for you. Read above again to see remind yourself why.
https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/reports/yW2CZzwM8Jcp6m7F#fight=5&type=damage-done&source=11 and here it is in WotLK, nearly doing 10%, without Water Jet. In fact, if we count all pets, there’s a total of 11% pet damage the expansion before it because a pet spec. In Cataclysm, which we’ll find out soon enough, that damage goes up to 15%, then when MoP rolls around, we’ll see. Again, without taking into consideration how much extra DPS the Mage gets from the extra forced FoF.
However, frickin’ finally we get some hard numbers from you people. Took forever for you to finally just say you want pets, regardless of permanence, to do 40%+ for them to be counted. Which would explain why we all agree that BM, Demo, and Unholy are pet specs if damage is a major factor. Seriously hilarious though, check the logs, Unholy pet damage only gets to 32% and Demo’s gets to 15% on WotLK. Not sure if it even gets to that magic number until MoP.
So; if we go by your rigorous testing methods of:
- Class’ main source of damage(assuming you mean the 40%+)- None of the classes did this pre-Cata. Then only BM, Demo, and UDK since.
- Has multiple pets for different situations(unless you’re meaning 3+)- Frost; MI(logs count as pet damage) for threat(and damage in DF) reduction and WE for cc and proc forcing. Demo’s range from blueberry to Felguard, and Unholy’s Army, Ghould, and Gargoyle; even though they only server for damage. Hunters had tank, damage, damagy-cc, wasn’t until Cata they served as buff replacements, then that was promptly removed in Legion I think.
- Player talents interact with or pet has talents of their own- First, demon and ghoul has no talent tree themself so they’re out on that regard. However, they are saved with Demo and Unholy having at least two talents that interact with pet. And so did Frost, whether you want to count pre-cosmetic Glyph or not, WotLK’s Eternal Water, Enduring Winter talent increasing duration, and Cata’s Permafrost damage heals Elemental and Impoved Freeze giving Freeze FoF procs. And not to forget Lonely Winter in Legion.
- Your rotation enhancing Pet- Only BM and Survival do this. Unless you count CD’s in which UDK is only untalented enhancement for rotational pet enhancements.
- (Going to add this as it should have been one)Player stats enhancing Pet- Frost, Demo, BM, Surv, UDK’s Mastery.
And this is all while ignoring Pet interaction with your rotation as being a criteria, which is a shame as I though players wanted diversity in their classes and not just every pet spec to buff pet and not the other. shrug
Still, goes to show through WoW’s history, expansion after expansion Frost was becoming more and more a Pet spec. Until Legion(which you have been shown has damn-near equal representation of both, in both, Nightmare and Trial); when they broke the spec by taking away what made the Elemental a core part, in Nighthold. When you’re procing BF and FoF almost every other Frostbolt, water jet gets clunky, and with haste piling on allowing ludicrous durations of IV, double lancing and a Dollar Store Ignite only benefiting off your filler damage while simultaneously having fight designs making long casts unfavorable, we see why LW pulled ahead so much. Then BfA sought to fix that by taking away all our abilities to force procs as baseline; Water Jet, Ebonbolt talented, every single Azerite piece only buffing damage of one spell. In thise case Icicles making Glacial Spike ludcrously powerful. With a trend that just spelled the end with more and more talents and systems making Ice Lance, and in turn LW and TV the go-to choices. And, instead of following the footsteps of eld, the devs said screw it. Fixed the Elemental, and removed it’s permanence because “majority of players playedit that way.”.
Which is also odd they chose to do that now if Frost was never a Pet spec and “the majority” have been using, and wanting to use, LW since Legion. All those posts each expansion trying to get the Elemental up to snuff comparitively before each launch must have been a figment of everyone’s imagination or just the vocal minority not wanting to have to suffer a playstyle they didn’t like for yet another expansion.
Also remember, the devs that made this change are also the devs that gave you NoIL in BfA Frost; Devs that gave Fire insane +Mastery/Haste/Crit on Azerite gear while simultaneously reducing all it’s cd’s through an item allowing it to always instant cast in Combustion.
Now, if you were smart, you would have looked at statistics instead of just the fact there’s logs, P6 Frost parses: 80k, Fire parses: 30K. Check other phases, one had 1.6k fire to 5.6k frost, and others don’t even have fire parses. If you’re going to try to “own” with such. Try better I pointed out nearly equal parse count, never said anything about “viability”.
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Imagine writing this big novel and STILL being wrong ^ lol
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All of these people are self-defeating in some way. You have nothing to prove to them.
The guy who blames his bad parses on a bad connection would benefit from frost becoming a full on pet spec. While that’s not necessarily what i’m advocating, he’s literally nailing his own coffin by fighting it coming back in a balanced manner. There’s a lot I could read into this situation pushing further, but I don’t want to make any snap judgments. I will say though if he’s struggling in his real life spending too much time on these forums definitely isn’t helping.
You know what? White knighting for a “data driven decision” that didn’t ask why is asking for another accidentally misguided decision. Anyone who can read or do research will see that their arbitrary cut offs on a pet spec are wrong and that their claim it was never a pet spec are wrong. If bringing it back makes us a pet spec, then the assertion that we were never a pet spec is wrong simply because we had a perma pet by default cat through wod (and that’s the assertion they made that started this firestorm). Now that perma elemental is gone something else will be next the next time a “data driven” decision is made.
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I do feel bad for him. I mean having to raid with thirty people in raid on an early twenty-ten’s computer? Thing must have been chugging worse than the “I think I can.” train on every pull. You know the first 30s of each fight that is the determining factor for how your parse will end up.
Though, I can understand some of the arbitrary cut-offs. Just not exactly all. The Elemental was the most interactive pet any class had.
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Too bad I missed that part of WoW’s history. Vanilla, TBC, Legion (I like a good fight with demons), BFA, some SL, and some DF.
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