Nothing is being stolen though. The Alliance is providing Vol’jin with supplies being taken from the Barrens by the Alliance already, supplies that Vol’jin’s rebellion would have otherwise had to obtain on their own.
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So the Alliance simply levied the supplies they intitially stole from the Horde vs the Horde taking those supplies back by force by killing the thieves.
The Alliance loses nothing and gains everything. Seems like a good enough reason to trust Vol’jin and let him intimidate the Alliance with empty threats.
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Seems to me like he’s just stating the obvious. Work together or suffer the consequences.
I think there is. (At least according to the quote).
Blizzard had already set the tone of the alliance perception, by reducing him to a monstrous caricature in the players eyes. Anything more diplomatic perhaps would not have been recognized as diplomatic. Maybe he actually was diplomatic and blizzard has decided that the alliance player is simply incapapable of processing something like that and doublethunk it into something else. It certainly looks as though they trying at least to partially to push forced perceptions.
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The Kor’kron, you mean? Did they, ‘steal,’ those supplies though? I suppose that’s a matter of semantics. One might argue they, ‘liberated,’ those supplies. Or, ‘repurposed,’ them.
Reminds me of that age old question asked back during the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina. ‘When does looting become salvaging?’
I guess you believe had Vol’jin and his people been the ones securing those supplies then it wouldn’t have been stealing?
So Vol’jin, whom had just built a fairly close relationship with a human during his recovery from attempted assassination, decides that the best way to shatter this image of a monster is to… completely play into the trope of being a monster?
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That’s something I also wanted fo note because I think it’s lost on most die hard Alliance players… it’s the dehumanization of the Horde coded in Alliance quest text. This is propoganda.
You do not see the same on the Horde side against the Alliance. It ingrains bias if the Alliance player Pov if it continues to dehumanize the Horde.
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Remember when Jaina said “was he the bomb?” Consider that my feeling when I was told to go meet Vol’jin. Why shouldnt I blame this guy? This was a guy who was following Garrosh and was part of the assault on Theramore. More importantly why shouldn’t the Alliance player just want to let both Vol’jin and Garrosh and then pick off whoever is left.
If nothing this interaction gives more content(and a bit of petty revenge seeing a Horde leader literally beg for help and tell us he want to kill other Horde) as to why we should help him.
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They could not obtain those resources if the Alliance decided to take advantage of the Horde’s rebellion, claimed the resources beforehand, and kept them for themselves.
It was a vile threat - and Voljin answered in kind.
Any resources taken from Garrosh’s Horde were the Horde’s resources. Just as Garrosh claimed Orgrimmar as Warchief, and even the Alliance High King understood that under the new regime, the Horde should have what belongs to it.
He didn’t say:
“The Alliance had to help take Org, so it doesn’t count as Horde at all. The Darkspear rebellion only has claim to what ever they were able to get, themselves. Which is basically outside the walls.”
Yes. He would be using the Horde’s resources for the Horde.
While the Alliance threatened to take the Horde’s resources for themselves.
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Why did you support Saurfang then?
That’s a valid question.
You can’t have a rebellion without the resources though. If anything Vol’jin would’ve had to dedicate manpower to acquiring said resources himself if the Alliance withheld them.
It was a legitimate question. “Why should we trust you, after everything you’ve done?”
The vile threat was Vol’jin’s response. “Fine. Enjoy fighting Garrosh on your own, we’ll raise your dead to fight for us when you lose.”
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I think that dialogue reeks of Alliance bias. I would not have had the Alliance character threaten Vol’jin in the first place. Adding the ability to call his bluff makes it more unfair to the Horde.
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Mostly because 1) there was an Old God running around and that does take priority over a faction war. 2) the Alliance was spent. Unlike the MoP one it didn’t have the capacity to actually do a successful siege.
The way I see it, the Alliance could have beaten Garrosh on their own, they would have taken heavier losses had Vol’jin troops not been part of the equation but it was still doable. The BfA makes it quite clear it was already a Hail Mary assault even with Saurfang’s troops.
Try to frame it in reverse then.
Let’s assume the Horde player is talking to Jaina. “Why should we help you? Why don’t we keep these supplies for ourselves?”
Her reply is, “Very well, do as you wish. When you go to face off against and die, we shall march in and clean up what remains of them and you.”
Now, would you say the Horde player threatened Jaina unfairly here, or did they ask her a perfectly legitimate question?
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So you agree than that the Alliance was being opportunistic by using Vol’jin’s rebellion as non Alliance casualties in thier seige.
So why is it a big deal that Vol’jin show slight contempt in that regard.
Out of all characters, I think Vol’jin is the character that is the most fair. If he dished out empty threats they were deserved.
If the Alliance lay siege alone, the Horde would gain new soliders. He threatened to give the Alliance corpses to Sylvanas to bolster the Horde, that would have been a Horde gain… but Vol’jin is not going to do that. He’s better than that, and that’s what makes him better than his enemies.
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If this would be in Mists of Pandaria, I’d actually say it would be a lot worse, since Jaina had her city destroyed and loved ones killed. So I’m no hypocrite.
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Of course. If anything that was how the entire thing was being sold to the Alliance.
It was a big deal that our suppose fist bump was the very complicated Purge of Dalaran. More importantly, people were angry we got robot kitty while the Horde got an entire questline where the save Sen’jin Village. The Alliance fan base at that time was already fuming from the fact the devs. Didnt seem to give the Alliance much of anything.
To add insult to injury they added the initial line where we reasonable ask why we should help Vol’jin and then be threatened by the fact if we dont help him, He would have our dead be tossed to Sylvanas(another major sore spot). Suffice to say if I actually had the choice I would have said to hell with you and hope you guys kill each other/politely said yes, while my fingers were cross and left and then let them kill each other.
Suffice to say I wasn’t the only one who felt that and it was the reason the second part was added.
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I appreciate your response. That makes sense.
Regardless of this sore spot. Garrosh wiped out a lot of the Forsaken forces in the Battle of Gilneas.
If he did do this he would have secured Sylvanas as a steadfast ally. This motivation to renew her people essentially lead to the Fourth War.
I wonder if history could have been averted if Vol’jin just let the Alliance seige Garrosh themselves and if Horde and the Forsaken were bolstered by the Alliance dead.
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Are you trying to say that Blizzard was biased towards the Horde instead?
I think the Alliance wouldn’t have put up with that for a second.
If the Alliance were that powerful, obviously they could have dealt with Vol’jin’s pyrrhic betrayal.
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You are right, it would have forced a ‘final war’ but the Horde would have at least stood a chance if they let Sylvanas loose.
But the Horde is equally afraid of Sylvanas and her power. Which is fair.
She’s the only one who would benefit from the death of her enemies. Alliance and Horde alike.
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Not true. He “would” have wiped them out had Sylvanas not been there as per the Val’kyr vision but because she was revived she prevent the lost of too much of her troops.
More importantly, Garrosh actually ordered Sylvanas to NOT use the plague and Sylvanas disregarded that order. We learn this as worgen players. The fact Sylvanas is actual portayed in worse light then Garrosh in this instance never bode well for her.