They’ll never top the WotLK cinematic and they know it.
As others have pointed out, the Horde has been so egregiously villain-batted in the past few expansions that the mere fact that the Alliance hasn’t been allowed to completely destroy it in self-defense is itself a form of humiliation.
I don’t want the Alliance humiliated. I just want the Horde villain-batted less.
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I think she is just reckless and keeps jumping into danger without any heed of others opinions/of how her actions affect them.
Yes I actually do.
- It would be the night elf army versus what one would assume is a sizable army of the Horde in Kalimdor. You would probably need that night elf army to actually have a chance of winning/stalling long enough to get reinforcements from the Eastern Kingdoms.
- the tunnels were SMUGGLERS tunnels which means I doubt the night elves or many people knew about it.
Sending most of their army is still a tactical blunder. And the tunnels, Malfurion knew about. So they must’ve been very old. Or if he didn’t know about the tunnels, I can’t quite remember, he at least understood that the possibility for the Horde to flank from Felwood was there but forgot. So much for being masters of their own territory.
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Because most of the time it devolves into “lets blame the Alliance/humans for what happened” never mind that there is actually a story the devs wanted to tell(you can argue the story was bad/not executed well but that does not have anything to do with the Alliance)
Here is my thoughts on the matter, could sexism truly have inflitrated the story written? The answer is “we really don’t know”. WoW’s story is/was created by more then just Alex Afrasiabi and as far as night elf losses go, I still think it has always follow WoW’s Cata mantra more then it was ever influenced by people like Afrasaibi(again, there are plenty of Blizzard employees who work on the lore who had nothing to do with the abuses):
In truth, a historical account of the Warcraft universe reads like a war crimes trial. Empires topple, leaders are corrupted, populations are massacred, entire civilizations fall to ruin (often at their peak of power)… Warcraft is a dark place. Just ask the Draenei.
On that note, even if Blizzard has plenty of failing with regard to their female employees Warcraft’s story did/continues to at least mention how gender discrimination was always wrong/has always had stories focus on stating women can be as good as men. Case in point, Jaina, Agwynn and Moira’s stories.
Interesting you mention her and forget to mention every other major male character that died in Theramore. Also interesting how you forgot to mention the only named survivors of the debacle were women(Jaina, Shandis and Vereesa). Warcraft started as a boys club, no one can deny that. However Warcraft has always slowly tried to be something more encompassing(probably more so the Alliance but the Horde has done some catch up as well) to the point male characters generally do die more often then female ones.
If you truly want a “positive” story in WoW then you have to be dragged into near pits of hell before you every actually get something close to positivity. Draenei were literally chased for 10,000+ yeas. Most of the human kingdoms were all destroyed before we got to BfA state of most of them being rebuilt/on the path to recovery. Similarly the same will happen to the elves. Again, using Kosak’s faction favoratism post:
It’s going to get worse before it gets better. A lot worse. But that’s a good thing. It means we’re going to need a lot more heroes to bring justice to an unjust world. We’re going to need you to step up and reshape the world.
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He didn’t know about the tunnels. In fact all he said is the Horde scaled the mountains. As for sending most of their army, yes it was a mistake but hindsight is 20/20. Sylvanas used everyone fear that she would make a super weapon to make them act hastily.
I like her sometimes… and sometimes, she is a huge jerk.
In WC 3, I thought she was awesome. I still swoon over the way she sassed Malfurion after he said: “I forbid it.”
She answered with one of my favorite lines in the franchise :
Tyrande: “Only the Goddess may forbid me anything.”
Now, that is a jerky thing to say, but hey, she is a jerk. I love it. Malfurion was trying to boss her around, and she was not having it.
On the other hand, we have her rude attitude to Voljin at the Gates of Orgrimmar. Voljin simply acknowledges her presence, in a tone mixed with relief and reverence. And what does she say:
Tyrande: “We’re not here for you, Troll. We’re here for Kalimdor.”
Now, in this case, she was being a jerk to a dude who almost sounded happy to see her. It is definitely in Character for her - and it also makes me glad to be a part of burning Teldrassil.
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Her tone towards Horde characters in Val’sharah and Suramar are just as vitriolic. Her insults to Thalyssra helped drive the Nightborne to the Horde. Her bigotry is much more blatant than Trollbane’s was, and that’s without using any slurs. She’s quite insufferable.
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When Alliance characters met up with Vol’jin in MoP to help out his resistance against Garrosh, when the Alliance player asks why they should help he responds by saying that they have to help him or else he’ll let use his Shadow Hunters to wipe out the Alliance during the Siege of Orgrimmar and then give their fallen to Sylvanas
Which, when said to a human PC, is basically like trying to secure the support of a Holocaust survivor by threatening to rebuild Treblinka.
It was actually such a shocking thing for Vol’jin to say that Blizzard needed to add extra dialogue where the player calls his bluff and he de-escalates his rhetoric when players pointed out how messed up it was and that it served as a definitive example of precisely why the Alliance shouldn’t help him.
It was unintentionally a microcosm of the narrative issues with the concept of Siege of Orgrimmar too because it just highlighted that in this Horde civil war, one side had Garrosh and the other had Sylvanas and so the Alliance should hate them both equally.
Basically what I’m saying is that Vol’jin has also said some really insensitive stuff too, you just only saw it as Alliance and even then only during the Siege of Orgrimmar patch event.
Edit: Source: https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Vol'jin_of_the_Darkspear#Notes
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Ahh I remember that, Kosak even replied to me about it a long time ago:
https: //twitter .com/Zerde3/status/325159751258353664
@DaveKosak Thank you for giving us a way to call Vol’jin’s bluff! It really means alot and made me smile 
@Zerde Yeah it was definitely needed.
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Exactly, you captured why I both like and dislike Tyrande. I love her sass when it’s justified but there are times when she just comes off rude and ungrateful. I hate rude people.
There are other times too, like in War Crimes where she exploits Jaina’s grief and trauma to prove a point. Or when she tries to get an emotional outburst from Baine by exploiting his grief for his father to prove even the peaceful Tauren get angry. It’s all so dishonest.
I do feel like all of these things made it easier to participate in the War of Thorns without guilt knowing the primary goal was robbing Tyrande of Malfurian. I’m sure the Night Elves felt the same kind of bitter justice when Tyrande killed Nathanos.
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Why should we help you? What if we kept the Barrens supplies for ourselves?
<Vol’jin cackles, the stench of his hot breath reeking in your nostrils.>
Oh, ya got anudda plan? I got anudda plan, too. I let ya siege Orgrimmar on ya own. See how far ya get. An’ once da city be filled wit’ corpses, den me shadow hunters come in, we mop up what left, kill Kor’kron an Alliance alike. Give ya dead ta Sylvanas. Hmm! I save a lot a Darkspear lives wit’ dis plan!
Mmnn? You don’t like? Then, we stay wit’ da fist plan. We work together.
[Call his bluff] Why don’t WE wait until YOU attack Orgrimmar, then mop up YOUR dead?
Ainhin I love how you completely ignore context to support your confirmation bias. Clearly Vol’jin is bluffing.
Vol’jin and Varian respected one another. They were “friends” that’s why Varian stood down when Vol’jin became Warchief after the Siege of Orgrimmar. Vol’jin was the best of the Horde.
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Aihns still salty his precious Stormwind humans and their pretty little blue eyed, blonde hair boy king hasn’t wiped the Forsaken and taken Lordaeron for Muh Alliance. So he comes in with these hot takes.
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I mean, he’s not wrong, and I think the Devs themselves acknowledged that when they added the extra dialogue option to call his bluff.
Its fair to point out the idea that Vol’jin had no serious intention of carrying through with his bluff, but at the same time, I don’t think there is any arguing about how inappropriate it was.
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Vol’jin was pointing out that the Alliance could not take the city themselves, they needed the Horde rebellion. Tyrande’s reaction was rude because she made it seem like the Alliance were not there to help the Horde, they were there for the resources of Kalimdor, knowing that Garrosh was a threat to everyone, the Horde included. Some members of the Alliance wanted to use the Siege of orgrimmar to wipe out the Horde, Garrosh and his followers and Vol’jin’s followers alike.
There’s no way to spin the narrative to make the Alliance seem like they were the reasonable party in this Horde civil war, or were in any way the victims of the scenario. The Alliance are nothing but opportunistic. I was a die hard Alliance fan until MoP and these were part of the reasons why I’m now primarily a Horde fan.
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I understand your point, but to be fair, the Alliance character is the one who first asked Vol’jin “Why should we help you?” It’s not as if it was unprovoked. It sounds like they were trading barbs, and Vol’jin escalated it.
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Call me crazy but, that sounds like a legitimate question to ask at that point.
The Horde under Garrosh had committed numerous atrocities. The smoking crater of Theramore to the south would be enough to make anyone ask why they should trust Vol’jin’s rebellion at all.
Vol’jin’s response was a hypothetical threat that pointed out that he’s actually still quite fine using the very same tactics Garrosh’s Horde has been using in this war all along.
There was no reason Vol’jin could not have responded more diplomatically. “We go in togetha, we be standin’ a much bettah chance o’ comin’ out a dis alive. I like de though o’ saving more lives. Do you?”
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Considering the Horde guard literally just dragged me and called me “trash from Theramore”(you know the city they did help destroy) call me less then accomodating.
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I wouldn’t call you crazy in this case, but I would say your perspective is different than mine.
This seems more than an inquiry. It is a hypothetical threat to steal resources from the Horde. Resources they would need for their fight, and to rebuild :
So, Voljin answered with a hypothetical, himself.
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So why take your anger out on Vol’jin?
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