When is faction imbalance going to be addressed?

Community General Discussion
511

And Talanjii was ALREADY in prison at that point. If the Alliance hadn’t done that, Sylvanas would have had exactly nothing to do with the Zandalari. The Alliance gave that to her by imprisoning Talanjii instead of aiding her.

Not to mention that Zul is ALSO the enemy of the Horde. Especially the Darkspears, frankly. I often think that this is the real reason they killed off Vol’jin - they could never have done this storyline with him as Warchief, not given his history with the Zandalari in Pandaria and his openly and personally antagonistic relationship with Zul.

So the Alliance captured them in Kalimdor? Because seriously, it makes no sense that she’d sail east in an effort to get there. It’s probably the worst bit of writing in the whole expac, all the moreso because no one questions it.

No she didn’t. We have no idea that Talanji knew the Alliance and Horde were at active war. She was seeking much-needed help for her people. The Alliance’s reaction was to imprison her, pursue her, and then blame her for the fact that this caused their ships to get sunk.

Apologism like yours is exactly the problem I’m talking about. Alliance players can never accept when their faction is the aggressor or in the wrong, so how can Blizzard possibly write anything more blatant? There’d be riots from the “good guys.”

They were INDIGENOUS. I like how you leave that out. The Alliance had NO RIGHT to that harbor. Yeah, they were aggressive, why shouldn’t they be? I don’t know why you think “they can’t be reasoned with” is an ok reason to slaughter an indigenous population to steal their land. But like I said, this whole WC is colonialism writ large. How dare the savages object to their home being invaded?

And yet all the complaints about the Horde invading Night Elf lands? Do you not get the hypocrisy?

No, it does not. It says that the Dark Lady is seeking the power of V itself. It’s an incomplete note that really doesn’t justify the aggression.

She is NOT doing it with Forsaken troops, or with the Horde champion. She explicitly tells us that she’s off to do her own thing and leaves us all. In fact, we have a quest with Nathanos to try and track her down after the ship is wrecked. No one knows what she’s doing.

Except that he wasn’t. He was right that Sylvanas was up to something sneaky, but it didn’t affect anyone else. Genn was there to kill her children, the way she killed his. He should have gotten Anduin’s permission to engage his troops with the Horde when we had a cease fire to fight the Legion, but he didn’t. And again, no consequences and Alliance players insist his actions were ok.

Your blue glasses are quite opaque, friend.

And I went in there expecting to be the good guy. I was actually quite surprised.

512

Factions will never be balanced. Wm, sharding, and all bonuses attatched to them are failures.

Let all players do pve content together.

Bgs should be all mercenary mode.

Wpvp should be a free for all blood bath.

Make all servers work like the old pve servers. Scrap warmode.

513

Guys, I think this thread has nothing to do with who is the good/bad guys in lore, it really doesn’t do anything for bad or good in this regard of imbalance, people are not leaving the Alliance because of lore, the story itself has flaws in both sides, the only difference is the amount of lore development both side gets, something that Alliance is also getting the short end…

Anyway, the lore discussion probably deserves another thread to be discussed.

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514

That’s a funny joke.

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515

Everything in this post is dangerously ignorant of how things actually work.

The “player issue” you point out is only true how you state it if players could not roll toons of the opposite faction. The faction problem the Alliance is facing isn’t a lack of players liking the alliance at all. It’s a problem where when players are faced with making a specific value judgement, namely “where will I get the most value for my time?”, the answer is overwhelmingly “Horde” because of social factors.

It’s a value problem.

The “easymode buffs”? They’re called “incentives” and they’re put in place to try and even out the value of play-time between the factions since, you know, the alliance is supposed to be half of the game. And “scream for more”? We wouldn’t have to if they were allowed to work. When AOOs awarded heroic gear? The horde rage surrounding that one where the alliance was too busy running alts through the quest to post about it on the forums and almost all of the horde posts were military-grade crying about how unfair it was? That was when it was working. Now? There’s a reason the bonus constantly hovers around 25%.

It’s not working anymore because nobody needs more normal mode gear. I mean, you can kit yourself out in better by just chain-running M6 dungeons. If you’re super serious about it, you can have the whole thing done in a day or two and suddenly AOO isn’t worth the time except for alts.

Yes. Just like I can blame you for hiding behind an alliance forum alt like a coward.
Post on your main, hordie!

There is healthy antagonism between the factions, like when competition is healthy and things are close. Then there is what is going on in threads like this when players who primarily favor horde (like you) try to dismiss alliance concerns and paint them as “the other”.

As players, we should be helping one another. Competition in WoW should be friendly, and horde players are being hostile because they don’t want to lose the advantages they currently enjoy (since problems of population in games like WoW are zero-sum by their very nature).

What worries me is Ion interviews suggesting that he doesn’t think the population problems are somehow zero sum, and that they can be solved by somehow getting more people who don’t enjoy end-game activities into end-game activities.

Listening to him, he’s bought into the idea that horde = serious, and alliance = wussies who like to craft, pick flowers, play dress-up, and cyber in goldshire.

He should know better. Populations like the WoW community are fluid. Individual players aren’t restricted on where they play, or with whom. We can freely swap between factions so long as we’re willing to put in the work necessary to level, gear, and maintain toons on both factions.

Faction swapping is not barrier’d by a faction-swap pay-wall if you have time, and we’re talking about a game where literally half your time is spent in content droughts by design, giving you plenty of time to level new toons and play catchup so long as you have a social circle to support you.

The faction population problem is one of time valuation. Time spend alliance-side is less valuable because we have harder times finding M+ groups, harder times pushing raid content, and harder times winning in PvP. All due to a lack of players spending time on the alliance-side.

If horde players want to actually help fix the problems, they need to spend time on their alliance toons, spend time rolling new alliance toons, and spend time socializing in alliance guilds (you can ignore general and trade chat. It’s just as bad over here as it is on your end).

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516

It doesnt but it would be a start and help to get more people to the alliance, rn Alliance is literally the hello kitty faction and looks pathetic, even story wise or coolness wise Horde wins

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517

There is an imbalance on Horde’s side in this game, but it’s not a faction imbalance. It’s a participation imbalance. Even Blizzard itself has said that the Horde vs. Alliance numbers are fairly equal (especially for a largely customer-driven number).

What really needs to be addressed is how to make Alliance players want to participate in more endgame content, because that’s the real issue. If you suddenly incentivize playing Alliance even more than it already is and we have a mass exodus of Horde to Alliance then we really WILL have a faction imbalance.

Personally, my solution would be to open all content cross-faction, but keep the factions themselves for PvP and roleplay purposes. Both factions work together toward common goals in practically every expansion, why can’t our avatars do the same? Recruitment pools would get much larger and that can only be beneficial for the longevity of the game.

518

Is it true that there are Gilnean Worgen who are no longer cursed and if the gates are reopened to the city that there will be another race to play as?

519

So you confirmed everything I said. There’s no point in me dissecting your post.

As for my posting on my forum “alt” it’s my forum main actually. I’ve always posted on it, and always will. I started on the old forums with it and kept using it. That way people who are regulars here will always know who I am, rather than using one of my max level toons.

your whole angle was just basically you moaning about players choosing to play horde, and having freedom of choice, and that blizzard isn’t giving you more stuff to force people to choose alliance.

520

What was your opinion when the horde needed help? Did you say it was wrong for Blizzard to give them Belves and boost racials?

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521

You know that was nerfed, right?

Also it was really only situational, so not great for casters most of the time.

522

It was nerfed AFTER the migration.
And you didn’t answer my question.
Were you against it, telling horde players that they either had a participation problem or tell them to ‘git gud’?

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523

I wasn’t for or against it, to be completely honest. You guys get gnomes with op racials soon, so not sure what you’re even moaning about?

As for blood elves, I actually enjoy other races more. Like with alliance, I’d rather play a regular gnome than anything else, well, when I used to play alliance.

524

OP racials? You mean until they nerf them four times (plus a stealth nerf) like DID?

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525

So if you weren’t against it when it came time to (rightfully) help the horde, why are you against it when it comes to rightfully helping the Alliance?

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526

Because I didn’t play WoW when they were released…

Sorry to knock you off your high horse. You need better material. Oh and yeah, I may not have played as long as some, but it doesn’t change facts. Stop detracting.

527

I am impressed by how many words you can use to say so little, with so little sense.
“I need data in order to understand how 1% crit= 1% damage, data which I can easily sim using basic probability learned in 4th grade.”.

Pardon?
As I said previously, your request is as ridiculous as someone demanding data to prove flipping a coin is 50/50 on either outcome.
:man_shrugging:

I get its hard for you to admit things are balanced, but you shouldn’t be trying to refuse basic math just because you’re unhappy with the outcome. :man_shrugging:

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528

Do you think horde players like the lore crap that blizz gives us? the alliance kills a racial leader in a raid to a racial capital! the horde does not kill any leader of the alliance, the horde is in the middle of a civil war (again) and a racial leader dies and the warchief betrays us (again).

no horde player likes this !!! I want my lore to be like that of the alliance without problems and where I don’t lose my racial leaders all the time!

529

I think as with everything in the game, many people will and did like the lore they got.

Furthermore given how the Horde was built over the course of Vanilla and up to WotLK i think the events that have occurred around the Warchiefs that have been evil or that the faction has had to go to war with itself are stories that work and were always going to go that way.

Looking at Garrosh there was NO QUESTION in my mind the direction they were going once you could see him become Warchief. He was always a hot head and he was clearly NOT READY for the position in a way that Thrall had been tempered and brought along by Cairne and the formation of the Horde we know today. He was a hothead more concerned with results then anything else that made those results that happened.

No one could have foreseen the short lived leadership of Vol’jin or the twist that is now apparent that went into Sylvanas becoming Warchief. But i think knowing Sylvanas and her character and how she was laid out over time, how she has been warchief and her singular focus on HER objectives has absolutely been consistent with the character from the start.

If you look at the Horde in the beginning in Vanilla and TBC it seemed as if there was two parts (of the Horde) with the Orcs, Tauren and Trolls as one part and initially the UD as an outside part and certainly the Blood Elves as a part of that when they joined in TBC. So it seemed 2 separate factions with the Horde from that point.

Garrosh turned out exactly how you would have expected and Sylvanas as well and so yes i do think that people have enjoyed the story and lore along the way, not everyone but that was never the goal. They wrote the story that i think was clearly in mind and at least from my standpoint it was always going to be this way with those to particular leaders of Garrosh and Sylvanas as Warchiefs.

I don’t get this obsession with the death of racial leaders, the turnover is part of the story moving forward. Out with the old and in with the new so to speak. Not sure which racial leader you are talking about specifically, in the end it was Thrall who killed Garrosh and it was Sylvanas that killed Saurfang.

This is simply untrue. As a Horde player i have enjoyed it and i know many who have enjoyed it. This idea of “keeping score” somehow is not how you write stories and it certainly was never in the cards for leaders to just stay leaders forever or nothing could have movement.

To borrow a quote from Ion, the Alliance is here waiting for you. Just know that if that is the story you want…there isn’t much story. If you like your leaders to never be allowed a tactically or strategically brilliant or even common sense approach, then the Alliance is right up your ally. If you want your leaders to always prop up the other faction, to make BLATANTLY treasonous choices in the face of the opposition (think the end of SoO and Anduin coming to help Saurfang but not being able to use his troops to help Tyrande). Uber powerful leaders who serve to move the plot forward but aren’t able to act of their own accord or as i said before in a strategically or tactically sound way or even common sense way.

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533

That can be applied towards the Alliance then, and so, this means you, nor any others can complain about the Alliance treatment.
I mean…clearly they keep going with them.
That is the problem though, everyone wants change, but clearly, if Blizzard pushes the same thing over and over then no one wants that change. People can call out for Blizz to change things, but if they give the opportunity, and everyone refuses, then they might as well stay with the faithful story.

Where the Alliance chase after the Horde.
Where the Horde mess up.

:man_shrugging: