Wanna expand on that or is this just another meaningless comment you’re gonna throw out there with no context?
It’s a pretty straightforward question.
Before Blizzard began to entice Alliance players and guilds to reroll horde, was the Alliance able to hold its own (participate) in high end content?
What do they do to entice players to go Horde and what expansion did Alliance have a higher participation rate in PvE or PvP than Horde?
First, they made a pretty race (Belves) so that Alliance players could stomach your faction.
Secondly, Ion even admits in the Nov 2018 Forbes interview, that racials caused a talent drain from the Alliance.
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My faction?
So which expansion was it where Alliance had such high PvP and PvE participation rates compared to Horde? I’m really curious about this claim.
I’ll give you a hint: none
Didn’t say that either now did I? There is an entire post, and you chose to pick one out of context. 
You can buy stock in Blizzard if you want to know FYI
Cool and what do you think can make things better? Or are you here to pull a motors and complain before saying “look through my history?” Cause if so, its not a wonder Alliance gets ignored.
The game should have axed the factions post MOP. Unfortunately the game has never felt like there was a war going on at all - To me anyways.
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You see, the problem is that even when they are tried to be written as “doing something wrong” they end up being proven correct in their assumptions in game because of poor presentation. Which makes it often times feel forced and silly moreso than compelling and believable. Cases in point:
Not going to lie, they throw us into that story with absolutely zero background. I honestly don’t remember them elaborating too much, but as far as I remember Talanji was on her way to ask the Horde for their assistance in Zandalar, right? So, that being the case, I fully agree that it’s a bit flimsy of a reason to capture and imprison her for simply going to ask the other side for assistance.
HOWEVER, it wasn’t JUST her. She had Zul with her, and he has quite the different reputation and background. And, it turns out, Zul was true to form and was a pretty bad actor. So, they don’t make it clear as to how they found out about them reaching out to the Horde or who the main target was. If you found out Zul, who has orchestrated some nasty things over the years, was looking to the Horde for help, a Horde you are at war with and just committed an atrocity to start it, what would you think?
That’s a bit of hyperbole. They wanted the harbor as a landing point and had to take it, and then they literally help a Sethrak who is about to die from poison, help him free his temple against the “bad” Sethrak, and then move on. And, again, they were shown to be correct in their assumptions about the Sethrak at the port. The Faithless are objectively bad actors.
This on the surface is a bad look. Yes, we are at war with the Horde, but the Reliquary doesn’t seem like a legitimate target. Except, in this fantasy world, archaeology sure does have a lot of ties to finding ancient weapons and sources of power to help with war. But, I agree that’s all debatable.
Then, of course, they throw the San’layn in, and it turns into tracking him down. They are legitimate military targets, and dangerous ones at that. Again, it’s debatable if the San’layn had noble intentions on joining the Horde. We are treated to Dreven killing Forsaken crew members to gain power when we confront him, so it’s at least not a good look.
This I can agree with. Not the best look other than intimidation.
Anyway, it all harkens back to Stormheim. Did Greymane jump the gun? Perhaps. Turns out his hunches were right though in the end, which colors the start of it all. Consistently having rash actions based on hunches that there is something bad going on, and then finding out later that there is something bad going on, really makes things less morally grey and, rather, makes you sympathize with the Alliance not trusting anything related to the Horde.
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It’s amazing that people think it’s story that drives the imbalance.
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Yea the imbalance is high level end game. Not generally the players who are story driven.
What an ignorant comment.
Nobody chooses to know that a company is going to forsake half it’s player base because they’re biased and stupid.
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What an ignorant comment
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It was more a statement and I love how you cut out half of it.
Very wow with that reach around.
Well I agree that when people first start they don’t know anything. Like which servers to go on.
The part I quoted though is just plain incorrect.
Exactly, and when I talk about Cross-Faction play I’m thinking about something like Mercenary Mode for PVE or Cross-Faction guilds like ESO has.
I’m not suggesting Humans in Orgrimmar and Orcs in Stormwind, that would be BS. But I can’t see why we players are not allowed to group together for Eternal Palace when our leaders are literally holding hands to take care of Azshara…
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Here’s the thing. The Zandalari are the oldest extant culture/kingdom on the planet. Kalimdor (where the Horde capital is) is <----- that way. EK (where the Alliance capital is) is ----> that way. The Amani are way at the top and the Gurubashi are way at the bottom.
They sailed directly at the middle of the EK, to Stormwind. Does that sound like they were asking the Horde for help? To me it sounds like they were asking for ANYONE’S help. And we took them up on it because we rescued her. Sylvanas knew she was in trouble (somehow) but no one else did. Literally the only reason they were friendly to us at all was that we rescued her.
And I find it totally against Anduin’s character that he would have locked her up without talking to her and then agreeing to help her, (like he does for everyone except Tyrande I guess?) My only possible explanation is that maybe Shaw totally kept the whole thing under wraps and lied to Anduin about it. Except Anduin totally went down to that same dungeon like a week later to talk to Saurfang, so why wouldn’t he at least talk to Talanjii?
It would have been different if they’d locked up just Zul and Talanjii protested and asked the Horde to rescue him. Frankly the whole “we’ll just trust Zul” thing is absolute rubbish on the Horde side too. But there’s zero excuse to have locked Talanjii up and then START A WAR with her people over her being rescued and the Zandalari blowing up a hostile party out of their harbor.
[quote=“Xianwae-wyrmrest-accord, post:497, topic:366606”]
That’s a bit of hyperbole. They wanted the harbor as a landing point and had to take it, and then they literally help a Sethrak who is about to die from poison, help him free his temple against the “bad” Sethrak, and then move on. [/quote]
No, that’s a quote from the questgiver.
“The desert of Vol’dun has a promising harbor for our fleet. An indigenous snake people known as the sethrak occupy the area. They are aggressive and cannot be negotiated with. We have little choice but to eliminate them”
Afterwards, he’s like “I am pleasantly surprised, these guys have deep ancient magic and I’m eager to unlock it.” Yuck.
“On the surface it’s a bad look” to bomb civilian archeologists…?
But they aren’t joining the Horde. In fact, there’s not a single hint of them in ANY Horde quest. I’m pretty sure the Alliance got totally played by the San’lyan the way they did by the Blood Trolls.
Greymane was explicitly told not to go after the Forsaken, did it anyway, and pinned down two armies who had nothing to do with Sylvanas and kept them out of the Legion war. At the VERY LEAST he should have been reprimanded. It’s not that he was right (he was right to go after Sylvanas on his own, apparently, but not to involved the Worgen/Forsaken troops who had zero to do with it) but he’s presented as a Good Boi both by the writing and by the Alliance players. That’s the problem.
Also, in no way was the Alliance right about what it did to Talanjii, which literally started the whole thing off. The Alliance was 100% the aggressors when it came to the island wars. They attacked Zandalar and then decided they needed Kul Tiras and their fleet to fight them.
The Alliance WC is pretty much just as appalling as the Horde one. But at least the Horde one is just following Nathanos around and running errands for him while he and Sylvanas do nasty stuff without you really knowing about it until later. The Alliance character literally lands on other people’s shores and then complains about the “savages” killing their mans.
I don’t think we know ANY of that, and I’m not sure where you got that info. All we know is that she was sailing to ask the Horde for help because she thought her father/his council weren’t doing what they needed to do to protect Zandalar (which is clearly stated in game), and they were captured by the Alliance. Blizzard gives literally no background other than that as far as I can remember, which is part of why it’s poor storytelling. They dropped it out of nowhere with no background.
If all we know is that she was sailing to ask the Horde for help, with Zul on board no less, and the Alliance intercepted them, it’s not hard to infer it was done to stop the Horde from gaining an ally in a war that had already been started by Sylvanas and the burning of Teldrassil.
When Sylvanas orders you to go rescue Talanji, she feels the Zandalari are clearly valuable to turning the war in the Horde’s favor. It’s safe to assume that Anduin wouldn’t want that to happen.
Again, we have zero context here. I have no idea how long Talanji and Zul were in prison in Stormwind. Blizzard never tells us. For all we know, Anduin never even got the chance to really figure out what to do or go talk to her.
Also, context again, Sylvanas clearly thought the Zandalari could sway the war. The Alliance chased after them to stop them from getting back to Zuldazar after being rescued. They failed that, saw a huge fleet and powerful magic, and clearly thought they need to figure out how to stop them from joining forces if they were going to win the war with the Horde. None of that is unreasonable. Talanji purposefully inserted herself into an ongoing active conflict by trying to gain the assistance of one side of it, so it’s not like a conflict was unprovoked.
Maybe I’m reading that wrong? Because that’s exactly what I said. They wanted the harbor, and it was occupied by sethrak who were clearly aggressive. I would assume that you could only say “they can’t be negotiated with” if they tried that first. Otherwise I don’t know how they would know they were called sethrak or that they were aggressive.
They aren’t just “civillian archaeologists.” They are mainly a Blood Elven organization that is actively allied with Horde operations, if not really an arm of it. And they spend their time trying to find powerful magical artifacts.
And the whole story of that part of the war campaign is that the San’layn actively WANTED to join the Horde, and Sylvanas was giving them a chance by doing a mission for her. It doesn’t matter that the Horde quests didn’t have that part, because we actively hear the whole conversation between Talanji and Rokhan.
The Alliance was trying to stop the San’layn from allying with the Horde throughout most of that story. The Reliquary part was just the intro to it.
That’s not true at all. The Alliance find orders in Azsuna that Sylvanas is going on a secret side mission with Forsaken (NOT Horde, strictly Forsaken) troops. That in of itself goes against the whole war with the Legion as Sylvanas is diverting forces for her side project. Greymane was NOT explicitly told not to go after them. In fact, he was explicitly told to secretly go after them to see what they were doing and that he could use force if necessary. So, when the intelligence turned out to be correct, and a secret Forsaken fleet was where the intelligence said it would be, he used force. We can argue if he jumped the gun, but there was plenty of evidence to suggest something bad was going on. Turns out he was right (which goes back to my earlier point).
I disagree. Sylvanas just burned down Teldrassil and started a war. A war that was ongoing. And a powerful representative, with Zul in tow, wants to go possibly join the other side? Which then breaks her out and thwarts your attempt to stop them with the power of a massive fleet/magic? Again, the war was already started by that point. You can argue about whether Talanji brought it to the island or not, actually.
And I wouldn’t call it appalling. I’d call it poorly written. Like looking at the Blood Trolls and thinking “No possible way this could be bad” with an enemy of my enemy is my friend mindset. Actually, that’s exactly opposed to your point, because they wanted to trade and set up relations with those “savages” to help in their effort. They were just too dumb to realize that flying a bat over a pit surrounded by bodies hanging from trees was a bad idea.
But whatever. I think you really, really had red colored glasses on when you went through that. Again, not arguing it was poorly written, but it wasn’t some warmongering, colonialism plot line.
Not sure what server you’re on, but Ive been spamming AV for 2 days straight on alts and Ally has won maybe 5 of those I’ve been in.
I am not talking about AV or other epic BG’s… just the smaller randoms.
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You didn’t even perform algebra.
You did arithmetic and copy and paste.
You said you were going to perform statistics so I held it to that standard of evidence.
There is a difference between theoretical and experimental results. Trivial things like coin flips and combinatorics can help us determine these things, but you are attempting to prove something complex without a simulation or data set.
You can’t even do basic math.
Because you were trying to prove that they were better using a series of statements to arrive at a conclusion. You were attempting to prove that Alliance racials are better, but your logic does not follow.
You wanted statistics.
I held it to that standard.
Now suddenly when I hold it to the standard that you initially said that you could do it, suddenly you throw a fit and get upset.
I’ll say as I said before:
“There is a difference between theoretical and experimental results. Trivial things like coin flips and combinatorics can help us determine these things, but you are attempting to prove something complex without a simulation or data set.”
You: I can prove my point with math and statistics
Me: Ok prove it
You: Well you see, void elves have 5% more damage than zandalari have 1% more crit
Me: Ok cool, so where’s the statistical data to back this up?
Also you: LOL I ONLY DID BASIC ALEGBRA
Me: but you said… you could prove this using stats…