When is faction imbalance going to be addressed?

[Itlatn-illidan]

I can tell you dont know the difference between live realms and tournament ones.

You can look at the data for mythic plus being performed on live realms. Generally, alliance more consistently completes higher keys than Horde. Simple as that.
Are there more horde teams for live? Yes.
Do they complete keys as easily? No.

As i say, MDI is a really smart portion

So is raiding!
ANd yet the areas where the alliance does have a significant advantage, they still fall behind in terms of participation numbers. So what does that suggest to you Dunk?
If you have the advantage, but still don’t compete, then that is a matther of mentality and participation. That is not something within Blizzard’s capability or resolving easily.

I never talked about it being a game balance issue, it’s a high end population issue.

So…participation as I said.

Can’t win with people like you, fam

You realize Method was Alliance for a longer period of time that they have been Horde right?
In fact, the only portion of them that is Horde based is their raiding team.
The vast majority of their existence they’ve been alliance.

Ergo, alliance had the better racials for raiding and competitiveness.
Oh…but wait…you’ll ignore it to continue perpetuating the “woe is me” alliance stereotype.

The only time alliance players like you don’t complain, is if they have an advantage. If things are balanced, you complain.

[Mazhar-faerlina]

The only time alliance players like you don’t complain, is if they have an advantage. If things are balanced, you complain.

Just like the Horde when we have EMFH, then you guys cry for everything to get nerfed. Then suddenly it’s about a lack of Alliance participation and not racials, but it’s fine that your racials are way more superior, right?

Nice alt posting btw

[Itlatn-illidan]

Just like the Horde when we have EMFH, then you guys cry for everything to get nerfed

Horde racials have been nerfed as well in the past Mazhar. This isn’t a case where the Alliance were being treated unfairly. Alliance gets nerfs just like HOrde gets nerfs.

but it’s fine that your racials are way more superior, right?

Mathematically you are wrong dude.
Alliance have an advantage in Mythic + currently.
Raid wise, they’re both even.
Hell, Method swapped to horde goblins for Kil’jaden. They never went back to alliance on their raiding team because there was no reason to do so.

Nice alt posting btw

Says the level 40 classic toon.

[Mazhar-faerlina]

Horde racials have been nerfed as well in the past Mazhar. This isn’t a case where the Alliance were being treated unfairly. Alliance gets nerfs just like HOrde gets nerfs.

Yep, and when Alliance racials get nerfed. People like you say nothing because you’d rather stay with OP racials. But it’s totally fine when our racials get completely neutered.

Mathematically you are wrong dude.

• says im mathematically wrong
• provides no mathematical proof

pepega

Says the level 40 classic toon.

says the guy who won’t post on horde main

[Dunkhammer-emerald-dream]

This was actually the only part of my post that was directly replying to you… Method’s raid team used to be Alliance, they moved Horde for better recruitment opportunities several years back… for raiding only.

I dont know how to start with your reply, i been following Method for a long time and even they admited to move to horde raiding back in Cata (not durind Kil’Jaeden as you said) for the DPS racials. And to be honest im fine with it they are a group looking to push World First so any advantage small or bigger is gonna be needed.

Here extraction from a interview with Method players back in MoP:

How’s the faction change working out for you?
Artzie : Reaaaaaaaally nice, the Horde racials are far better than the Alliance ones, thank god we went Horde!
Vailaine: To be honest I don’t think we would have made it on Spiritbinder and Elegon as early as we did. Those kills were so close that the DPS racials give Horde players the edge once again.
Treckie: The faction benefits are hard to quantify, I still think it was a case of “the grass is always greener”, but there’s been close kills this tier, so I guess extra DPS isn’t bad. I’m sure we would have done excellently as Alliance, although most DPSers will say the complete opposite for their DPS racials

Links: https://www.engadget.com/2012/11/01/top-guild-method-discuss-their-world-first/?guccounter=1

Currently, the racials for both factions are pretty balanced, those teams just never moved back. And why would they? The expense isn’t outweighed by any gain and they loose nothing staying where they are for raiding.

Indeed no reason for them to move when most competitive players actually switched to the horde, but lets not pretend that there wasnt an exodus from high end competitive players from Alliance to Horde.

Their PvP and MDI teams are still Alliance across the board. Always have been. This alone should show that the “forum perceived imbalance” is a non-issue.

If we talk about competitive eSports like AWC and MDI, sure i agree. But you and others i been talking to in this thread dont seem to realize that the switch to Alliance character ONLY HAPPENDS IN TOURNAMENTS yet on live realms (the ones you and i play, where 99.9% of the playerbase plays) they are actually horde players.

You can actually see players like Jdotb, Yoda or Gingi stream regularly and they just play horde.

Method actually plays both factions. Only the raid team (lead by Sco, who is the most “well known” member) is Horde.

They do it only in tournaments, for their everyday activities they play Horde.

[Motors-korgath (Motors)]

Thanks for the conclusive “data” that shows absolutely nothing at all.

NO ONE said it was conclusive. All it shows is that there are a much greater number of one faction in que then the other…that is all.

You are being irrational. I ask for data on how there is a faction imbalance and your reply is “look at queue times for the AV anniversary event” while wanting to ignore usrealmpop numbers?

Sorry, that is not irrational. It is “data” right in front of me and everyone else for all to see whether you like it or not. The time difference is accurate. And it is funny, que time is a measurable thing while realmpop is “trying” to measure something yet you are willing to just take realmpop as everything but not what is right in front of your face.

That is irrational.

That is not logical.

That is why I stopped responding. Its a joke.

And you should stop responding if you think something you can see and is right in front of your face is “irrational” and “not logical” but something you see on a third party website that uses flawed mechanics is THAT YOU KNOW is already wrong from the get go. All realmpop does is point to a population imbalance which we already know to be true.

Population has zero to do with how many players choose to queue for content.

Absolutely not true. Read above, not covering it again. You folks need to take some courses in statistics to actually understand how the world works and not just what you fantasize about.

You actually kind of are. Every website that shows faction populations shows them at a relatively close ratio.

Another person looking at a flawed mechanic they KNOW and using that as gospel, then saying i am irrational AND then also saying it is a close ratio when their “data” (which again is not accurate and they know this) shows an 8% population imbalance but yet want to call it

relatively close ratio

You not wanting to see, believe, whatever, that data because it’s from a 3rd party site

Thats still NOT why i don’t want to “believe” it.

while making unfounded claims

Wrong again, anyone with a logical thought knows the mechanics to gain the information are not accurate.

you can’t back up with any data at all other than things that support the participation issue is pretty irrational.

The website tells you how it gains the information, again covered above. Let me know when you get caught up on things before flinging more mud around.

So…you say Realm pop sucks…but you’re going to use a completely anecdotally based observation to make your argument?

Says the guy USING SOMETHING HE KNOWS IS WRONG that uses a flawed mechanic to come up with “data” as his argument.

You really are being irrational considering how you justified your view.

Again, entitled to your opinion. The whole irrational thing make me lol, since we know you don’t research anything, you don’t even do the most mundane tasks to get information and you don’t even use logic as pointed out and shown to you multiple times in this thread.

Good luck with that.

[Sarallesta-shattered-hand]

Yep, and when Alliance racials get nerfed. People like you say nothing because you’d rather stay with OP racials. But it’s totally fine when our racials get completely neutered.

The Horde racials were completely nerfed after MoP. Alliance racials were nerfed after WoD. Right now, it is all pretty balanced when it comes to racials. How ever, the issue is actually participation, more people today chose to do more on the Horde than the Alliance. Doesn’t mean there is a faction inbalance.

[Shadow-shadow-council]

Regarding pvp, real players don’t choose what race to be based on their racial !

[Itlatn-illidan]

Yep, and when Alliance racials get nerfed. People like you say nothing because you’d rather stay with OP racials. But it’s totally fine when our racials get completely neutered.

Dude, you got balanced and that was all. When the BE racial was a problem, it got nerfed as well. So what is your point? Personally? I don’t care about racials.
They don’t mean anything unless you’re on the cutting edge and even then, its been demonstrated you don’t need them time and time again on both factions.

pepega

Claims horde racials are superior
Provides no mathematical proof.

Irony.

We’ll do a quick comparison.

Zandalari racial provides an increased crit buff.
Void elf racial provides an increased damage/healing buff.
Both are 12 seconds.
The former is 4% rit
The latter is 5% flat buff increase.
The latter is stronger purely because at best, you’re getting about a 1% damage increase per crit chance.

If we look at the troll bloodlust ability, it looks good on paper.
Until you consider that the benefits of haste is not linear like that of versatility.
20% more haste sounds great for 15 seconds, but it does not translate to a flat 20% damage increase.
Its benefits also decrease the more baseline haste you possess as well.

So long story short, right now, for raiding purposes you’re relatively even with the Horde.
For M+, utility becomes more key, and thats why Alliance dominates the mDI with it.

says the guy who won’t post on horde main

Oh I see.
Because i won’t jump into the boohooing the alliance does, it means I am a Horde main.
Maybe…just maybe…I am just a gamer who plays whatever character I am on int he moment? Just a thought.

Says the guy

That doesn’t change the fact you’re using what you “feel” as justification of an argument. It is an emotional argument, not a logical one Motors.

Again, entitled to your opinion

It is a fact that you are being irrational if you’re saying you feel you are right because you feel the queues times mean something when they dont.
Feelings mean nothing.

you don’t even use logic

I am sure you do not know what logic means dude.

[Dunkhammer-emerald-dream]

You can look at the data for mythic plus being performed on live realms. Generally, alliance more consistently completes higher keys than Horde. Simple as that.
Are there more horde teams for live? Yes.
Do they complete keys as easily? No.

Where the hell you get the data man, because actual data shows the COMPLETE opposite of what you saying. Please show me where you get it.

So is raiding!
ANd yet the areas where the alliance does have a significant advantage, they still fall behind in terms of participation numbers. So what does that suggest to you Dunk?
If you have the advantage, but still don’t compete, then that is a matther of mentality and participation. That is not something within Blizzard’s capability or resolving easily.

I agree that there is a lot of issue with participation, but what is like people like to pretend this wasn’t an issue for the horde before and blizzard made changes to lure people in with a race like Blood Elf and buffing racials back in the day.

So all these “aaah horde all mighty”, “horde so gud” wasn’t a thing before until they got spoon fed with players.

But that’s the issue, how you can split a shrinking high end content population in the 2 factions evenly? If you lure players into the alliance now whats happening in the alliance would happen in the horde.

Thats why i keep thinking that cuting the faction wall is the best choice for people that wanna do content and not just do casual stuff like

So…participation as I said.

Read above.

[Akston-bloodhoof (Akston)]

And you should stop responding if you think something you can see and is right in front of your face is “irrational” and “not logical” but something you see on a third party website that uses flawed mechanics is THAT YOU KNOW is already wrong from the get go. All realmpop does is point to a population imbalance which we already know to be true.

Nah. I will just stop responding because I grow tired of people giving slanted angles.

Realmpop shows a population that is rather close. like what…46-54? That is not reflected in m+, mythic raiding, or high end pvp. That means that the Alliance. While having a closer over all population…is not participating.

Absolutely not true. Read above, not covering it again. You folks need to take some courses in statistics to actually understand how the world works and not just what you fantasize about.

What did your course on statistics tell you about anecdotal evidence based on personal experience while ignoring data like usrealmpop shows?

Another person looking at a flawed mechanic they KNOW and using that as gospel, then saying i am irrational AND then also saying it is a close ratio when their “data” (which again is not accurate and they know this) shows an 8% population imbalance but yet want to call it

Better than a person making up statistics in his head based off of queue times for a limited time anniversary event with a finite reward.

Wrong again, anyone with a logical thought knows the mechanics to gain the information are not accurate.

Just like the mechanics you are providing to show that the over all population is horrible are not accurate. Hypocrite much?

Says the guy USING SOMETHING HE KNOWS IS WRONG that uses a flawed mechanic to come up with “data” as his argument.

Yet you are pushing your own flawed mechanic?

Again, entitled to your opinion. The whole irrational thing make me lol, since we know you don’t research anything, you don’t even do the most mundane tasks to get information and you don’t even use logic as pointed out and shown to you multiple times in this thread.

And you have yet to use this “logic” or “research” yourself. Your entire argument is 'any data that disagrees with me uses faulty methods, but my faulty methods are ok"

[Archmage-azralon (Archmage)]

I can tell you dont know the difference between live realms and tournament ones.

As i say, MDI is a really smart portion and those people playing in the MDI when they aint in a tournament are actually playing on Horde. The horde dominates Mythic+ too in live realms, pretty easy to check it.

It’s really funny how people keep saying that Alliance dominates M+ and PVP, when in fact these people that we see on Blizzard streams are all Horde players that only play Alliance with their copied Horde characters on Tournament Realms where they can change the faction and race at any time without any costs.

[Mazhar-faerlina]

They don’t mean anything unless you’re on the cutting edge

Yes exactly, this is my point.

The players who play seriously migrate to the faction which has the best racials and then people move over in suit.

Claims horde racials are superior
Provides no mathematical proof.

Irony.

The burden of proof is on you, not me, because you made this claim

https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/222/Shifting-of-the-Burden-of-Proof

Also listing a series of statements that read the racial is not a math proof, fam.

Just in case you’ve never taken a basic course in logic.

Because i won’t jump into the boohooing the alliance does, it means I am a Horde main.
Maybe…just maybe…I am just a gamer who plays whatever character I am on int he moment? Just a thought.

Yeah fam, you ain’t convincing me with that armory.

At least try harder.

[Itlatn-illidan]

Where the hell you get the data man, because actual data shows the COMPLETE opposite of what you saying. Please show me where you get it.

Suuuure. I can take a peek again since I was going off my memory here.

I agree that there is a lot of issue with participation, but what is like people like to pretend this wasn’t an issue for the horde before and blizzard made changes to lure people in with a race like Blood Elf and buffing racials back in the day.

I cannot agree with you on this statement. Back in Vanilla the racials gave alliance an edge in raiding/dungeons, and the Horde had better racials overall for PvP purposes such as will of the forsaken. When TBC was released, yeah, the Horde experienced a good jump in population, but you still had really good competitiveness out of the Alliance, and TBC was during the time in which abilities such as fear ward and will of the forsaken began eating nerfs along with EMFH.

So all these “aaah horde all mighty”, “horde so gud” wasn’t a thing before until they got spoon fed with players.

Horde was always considered the most hardcore of the two factions since Vanilla.

But that’s the issue, how you can split a shrinking high end content population in the 2 factions evenly? If you lure players into the alliance now whats happening in the alliance would happen in the horde.

Thats why i keep thinking that cuting the faction wall is the best choice for people that wanna do content and not just do casual stuff like

I am unsure if this would be the best idea. I like the faction divide since it makes your choices have greater meaning when you pick a race. Losing that would be like losing a good part of wmakes WoW, WoW.

[Dunkhammer-emerald-dream]

It’s really funny how people keep saying that Alliance dominates M+ and PVP, when in fact these people that we see on Blizzard streams are all Horde players that only play Alliance with their copied Horde characters on Tournament Realms where they can change the faction and race at any time without any costs.

I know man, i mean aint hard to know that they just simply faction change for tournaments. I mean literally any Method player has more Arenas or Mythic+ dungeons done as horde that as alliance.

[Itlatn-illidan]

Yes exactly, this is my point.

The players who play seriously migrate to the faction which has the best racials and then people move over in suit.

And currently if they are cutting edge for myhic + its alliance.
if its raiding, they’re on horde because they were horde in legion and there is no reason to move.
When things are balanced, they don’t move.
When its not balanced, they move.

The burden of proof is on you, not me, because you made this claim

but it’s fine that your racials are way more superior, right?

Please don’t lie. You can be quoted you know.

Just in case you’ve never taken a basic course in logic.

Your lack of self-awareness and statements of logic while being bereft of it makes me wonder if you are just Motors.

Yeah fam, you ain’t convincing me with that armory.

At least try harder.

I don’t have anything I need to prove to you dude. This is just an ad hominem on your part while being a hypocrite.

[Itlatn-illidan]

copied Horde characters on Tournament Realms where they can change the faction and race at any time without any costs.

That’s why pontifice.

[Dunkhammer-emerald-dream]

Suuuure. I can take a peek again since I was going off my memory here.

Here, don’t waste time and tell me where you see it being even remotely close:
https://raider.io/mythic-plus-character-rankings/season-bfa-3/world/all/all

I cannot agree with you on this statement. Back in Vanilla the racials gave alliance an edge in raiding/dungeons, and the Horde had better racials overall for PvP purposes such as will of the forsaken.

I would say Alliance had the advantage in PvE and PvP during Vanilla, but this is the thing why we can agree that the Alliance had better racials back in Vanilla but you cant admit that the horde had better racials in Cata and MoP? Because thats when the exodus started of alliance guilds to the horde, well tbh it started in late Wrath but it got bigger in the next 2 expansions.

When TBC was released, yeah, the Horde experienced a good jump in population, but you still had really good competitiveness out of the Alliance,

Agree and thats the thing before the exodus i said before.

eating nerfs along with EMFH.

EMFH wasnt added until Wotlk.

Horde was always considered the most hardcore of the two factions since Vanilla.

Yet before being baby sited to lure players into the horde the alliance was dominating without an issue. Why do we pretend that thing we have now didn’t happened before? Sure i agree that not as a big scale as it did back then but still and that Blizzard can put in their hand to change it.

I am unsure if this would be the best idea. I like the faction divide since it makes your choices have greater meaning when you pick a race. Losing that would be like losing a good part of wmakes WoW, WoW.

Well man i don’t know how to say this without sounding like a complete douche, but i beg you to not take it personally.

But yeah i can see why you don’t like or care about it, just seeing your achievements i can see that you do no actual content. You don’t raid, nor do rated pvp or mythic+ so of course a shortage of players triying to do this doesnt affect you hence why you see no problem.

[Mazhar-faerlina]

Please don’t lie. You can be quoted you know.

I never made the claim that it can be mathematically proven.

Mathematically you are wrong dude.

You did.

You’re abysmal at trolling.

Your lack of self-awareness and statements of logic while being bereft of it makes me wonder if you are just Motors.

I mean, don’t get mad when I call you out for being dense. Actually try to think about what you’re saying before you say it.

I don’t have anything I need to prove to you dude. This is just an ad hominem on your part while being a hypocrite.

I mean you can’t even prove your own actual argument in the first place. Even if you try to prove this, it would be some absurd series of statements cobbled together in a woeful, cringey attempt to sound clever.

[Belitt-pagle]

When they close the servers for good, then both factions will be perfectly balanced, forever.