When is faction imbalance going to be addressed?

[Ukhu-lightninghoof (Ukhu)]

The Alliance must be terminated!

[Synsha-sargeras]

Absolutely, competitors don’t tie themselves by faction loyalty at all, the problem is why are the rest not getting the basic end game content done?

If, as said, and as prove by how absurd the imbalance in random BGs was, what the regular raiding Joe needs it’s an advantage and being equal it’s not good enough, that’s a problem, but not a problem blizz can solve.

I can’t speak to PvP, as I haven’t done it in a very long time. As for raiding, Mythic raiding is built on the foundation of requiring an organized group of 20-25 players to compete. The horde has more players interested in pushing the envelope currently, thus meaning plenty of guilds recruiting and plenty of people to recruit from. People see how sparse it is on the alliance relative to the horde, and so go horde, thus encouraging a positive feedback loop.

If you’re horde for your mythic raiding, then why not be horde for the rest as well?

As I said before, I don’t think bliz can “fix it.” They just need to put in cross-faction guilds/grouping. Not for any lore or story reason, but simply for gameplay reasons.

Unfortunately, I doubt they ever will. Maybe when the game is eventually on its deathbed.

[Motors-korgath (Motors)]

No, you’re stating “you cant use this data at all because its inaccurate.”
Everyone else is stating “There is surely inaccuracies, but it provides an idea of what is occurring.”.
Perfect? No.

Nope, what i am saying is it is almost useless. What is your measure of the deviation of the “data” YOU already know and state is inaccurate?

All it shows you is that there is MORE Horde then Alliance. How wide could the problem be? Is it 54/46? Is it 60/40? You have NO IDEA, but you

1. KNOW the data is inaccurate
2. KNOW that it points to a population imbalance
3. THEN refuse to say there is a population imbalance but prefer to say it is a participation imbalance EVEN THOUGH by your OWN chosen “data” you have 8% more people playing the game.

Then you say stupid things like

Are you that unaware of yourself and your own statements?

To try to push some narrative that i am just some “angry” “spiteful” “unintelligible” person that you can’t understand but constantly talk too. These are your actions, and you wonder why i say thing like you lack logic.

Better than nothing? Most assuredly.

Is it? Ok you are entitled to your opinion. I have been using your own data against you from the start so it really doesn’t mean much to me anyways. That is a you thing being stuck on it.

within a few percentiles of accuracy

such as in MoP

One point in history…from 6 YEARS ago+. Bravo.

Danthe’s law is being applied here.

It’s called Danth’s law. And that might be true if it wasn’t directly refutable in just this statement as you have pulled some obscure crap out of thin air AND then misspelled it but also throughout this thread for anyone to read. When you try again to disprove me at least make a proper reference.

Except we know this is not the case per the devs. Sooooooooo…literally you’re wrong.

Wow you like to reach.

Devs: Only single digit percentile raids. So we made LFR to raise it.

This is talking about the ENTIRE POPULATION of the game. Not in talking about faction. What you are also seemingly referencing is something that was created in 2011. This might be something you could reach for except we aren’t talking about 2011, we are talking about 2019. We also aren’t talking about the population of raiding AS A WHOLE but faction participation and not just within raiding. As i have said before… you and logic, not really working well together.

Except the devs said its a participation issue and always has been. So…yell more that the makers of the game pointed out what every single MMO maker has noted with raiding .

I don’t know how many more times i have to say it, but you seem to be unable to come to the conclusion YES IT IS A PARTICIPATION problem…brought about by a POPULATION IMBALANCE. There is a certain percentage of the population of the playerbase that does raids/pvp’s/m+ or WHATEVER ENDGAME content that needs to get done. Now back to statistics, that % exists ON BOTH SIDES within a certain margin of error. IF THE HORDE is absorbing some of the Alliance raiders/pvp/m+ population THERE ARE STILL A CERTAIN PERCENTAGE OF PLAYERS that want to do those functions REGARDLESS. So if the % of endgame participants is 9% (single digits to make your numbers work you pulled from 8 years ago) for raiders, then no matter if you have 1 million or 100 thousand players 9% of the playerbase WILL BE RAIDING within some small deviation.

So now that we have established ~ 1:10 players is endgame (not for real, just for example) then the distribution of players means that it will remain over the long term that number. HOWEVER if the Horde has 1.1 million players and the Alliance has 900k that SAME DISTRIBUTION of the playerbase exists, but the ABSOLUTE POPULATION OF BOTH THE FACTION AND THE RAIDING POPULATION IS SMALLER. Thus participation is smaller BECAUSE THE POPULATION IS SMALLER. Furthermore the reality that there are endgame players that will do the lemming thing and move for whatever reason and you have an imbalance. By your OWN numbers an almost double digit imbalance.

Your idea on how to get supposendly “accurate data” doesn’t result in “accurate data” either.

I don’t remember ever saying HOW to get accurate data, i just used data THAT IS ACCURATE in que lengths to backup what i can see in LFG, /who and que times.

defeatist attitude you’re spreading

What defeatist attitude? I am playing both sides, have won on both and lost on both. Where are you even coming up with this stuff? I Haven’t ONCE mentioned win rates on either side or anything about it?

I mean, how many “AV favor Horde because I lost a few times!” threads have you seen so far?

None as i haven’t been looking. Are they out there? If they are i don’t know what to say to that, the better team wins. That is FACT. THE BETTER TEAM WINS. Whether it is gear or talking in chat or actual teamwork and sacrifice THE BETTER team wins.

The majority of people in this game don’t do high end content, I should know, I’m one of them, it’s really not that hard to think that the majority of that majority might gravitate towards one side over the other.

And yet you want to refute the fact that if those people leave, not ONLY is there a participation imbalance but also a population imbalance? Those people that are doing endgame content…when they swap sides ARE EXACERBATING BOTH PROBLEMS. They don’t just go Horde and then get counted as more participation for the Horde, they ALSO ARE LESS POPULATION FOR THE ALLIANCE BY DEFINITION.

Edit: Almost forgot, what you folks are talking about is ONLY A PORTION of why there is a population imbalance. You guys are only talking about endgame, there are MANY MORE reasons why the population is imbalanced, it is not just an endgame problem.

[Rvm-tichondrius]

0.5% potential dps increase if you perform your rotations flawlessly and play a specifc race vs objectively the best PvP racial in the game by a mile.
Also if Troll racial was so busted and THAT was the reason Horde are OP in PvE, how come Troll has forever been the lowest represented Horde race? Surely if it was the reason of the faction imbalance it would be the highest represented?

Also the Horde racials were nerfed back in WoD when EMfH was still at it’s strongest since Cata.

Ok so following ur logics Method , scrubusters , Vodka , midwinter and like 20 more top guild from the Alliance swaped ,since pandaria to legion, to the horde because they like their races . . .

Yeah . . . yeah. . .lmao.

[Marazhu-durotan]

I am bitter at the Alliance and their blood-thirst back in WoTLK

I can’t count the amount of times the Alliance camped outside the entrance of FoS/PoS/HoR or murder Hordies who’s trying to enter ICC?

Yes I am bitter as hell

[Synsha-sargeras]

As you said yourself.

An extra 25% manapearls and Azerite seems really good for progression does it not, yet they stayed horde.

We didn’t get 25% more manapearls… Just azerite, and only in WM. Just an FYI, but the vast majority of the AP that people grind for hardcore progression comes from Mythic islands. So… literally nothing to do with WM.

[Valarían-hydraxis]

This has been festering over many many many years ever since the Devs decided to make sure they kept the horde popular. BFA just showed they don’t care to hide it any more.

[Haavi-barthilas (Haavi)]

Method also swapped to Alliance in MoP and WoD for PvP? What’s your point?

The best 100 players swapped faction for a minimal buff BECAUSE IT IS THIER JOB.
How many players do you think there are in the world first race? How large a portion of the playerbase do you think that is?

They are the only people it matters to.

Limit also rerolled to Alliance during BoD when AaO was released. Should everyone have moved because they did?

[Aleksandr-moon-guard]

Racials were a factor… they had interview comments from them, the other two factors mentioned by some of the players were “larger recruitment pool & more attention from developers” I don’t know what they meant by the second part honestly.

[Badtz-bloodsail-buccaneers]

Seriously stop playing Alliance. I know that sucks but honestly it’s the only way to send a message that the faction imbalance is very very broken.

Take the opportunity to roll horde, level up a happy panda bad boi, jump into AV for some max level goodness, and repeat.

I’ve stopped playing Alliance. Diaper gnomes suck so much and Vulpera are clearly super awesome sauce (they get warlocks too!) so may as well play that goodness and enjoy the furry love.

When Horde get all the good stuff and Alliance don’t, why play Alliance? Devs don’t want you to play Alliance. Horde players call Alliance whiners. Horde players <3 devs and devs <3 horde players. So who loves Alliance players? No one. Not even Alliance players.

If no one plays Alliance then the devs might have to be held accountable (finally) for fractioning the player base so much. The fact that Horde players hold such animosity toward Alliance players is stupid - this is a Blizzard problem, not the person playing the avatar problem.

/rant

[Rvm-tichondrius]

Method also swapped to Alliance in MoP and WoD for PvP? What’s your point

Are you new in the game ? method was always alliance ; if you are talking about the pvp who was like 3 or 4 people swaping from the horde to alliance ?. … like hello ?.

The best 100 players swapped faction for a minimal buff BECAUSE IT IS THIER JOB.
How many players do you think there are in the world first race? How large a portion of the playerbase do you think that is?

Again are you new in the game ? the impact of guild swaping to a faction made a huge impact . Even “casuals” who wanted to be hardcore were swaping because they see the leader and see “8 of 10 guild are horde” . Like cmon you cant say stuff like this without even knowing the basic.

They had an impact and denying is just sad .

[Synsha-sargeras]

I would, but I think it’d be futile. I’m also really done with spikes…

[Badtz-bloodsail-buccaneers]

I’m also really done with spikes…

Yeah, the knuckle-dragging decor of the brohorde is a bit of a bleh… but hey, when you roll in the new zones and new cities you never have to really stay back there, right?

[Midare-area-52 (Midare)]

I can’t speak to PvP, as I haven’t done it in a very long time. As for raiding, Mythic raiding is built on the foundation of requiring an organized group of 20-25 players to compete. The horde has more players interested in pushing the envelope currently, thus meaning plenty of guilds recruiting and plenty of people to recruit from. People see how sparse it is on the alliance relative to the horde, and so go horde, thus encouraging a positive feedback loop.

I’ve been trying to get back into BGs this xpac and I still win and lose in an average way as I always been, but when we do win it feels like it happens because the Alliance team just gave up trying. I’ve never seen the Alliance in a “last desperate push” type of scenerio that might save them from the loss, it’s always Horde doing that.
But anyway, I’m going off a tangent here… yes I can see that happening, but why aren’t Alliance players, the average raiders, not the super competitive “I-must-get-WF-nao!” are pushing to get guilds together? There’s obviously players interested on it (unless people not interested on it are complaining about the participation gap for the sake of complaining, which is also entirely possible).
Horde has more players, but Alliance has a lot of players too. Both sides are well over 2m players strong.

If you’re horde for your mythic raiding, then why not be horde for the rest as well?

If that’s their objective, yes, it’s hard to not go Horde, but yet, it doesn’t seem like the gap between the playerbases has been changing much in the past moths either… I wonder how many people has simply given up or even struggle more than they should due to this.

As I said before, I don’t think bliz can “fix it.” They just need to put in cross-faction guilds/grouping. Not for any lore or story reason, but simply for gameplay reasons.

I will never support demolishing the faction boundaries. But a mercenary style system would be fair.

And still I can’t help but think that it’s sad that the Alliance would have to depend on the Horde to get things done.

I am bitter at the Alliance and their blood-thirst back in WoTLK

I can’t count the amount of times the Alliance camped outside the entrance of FoS/PoS/HoR or murder Hordies who’s trying to enter ICC?

Luckily I’ve skipped that part not only because I stopped playing before the release of ICC, but also because I never played on a pvp server, heh.

[Synsha-sargeras]

Yeah, the knuckle-dragging decor of the brohorde is a bit of a bleh… but hey, when you roll in the new zones and new cities you never have to really stay back there, right?

Dunno… the pyramid really didn’t do it for me either. That and how they weirdly have to take a FP to get to their boat… If anything screams alliance favor it’s that FP… I actually feel bad for the horde on that front! lol

[Badtz-bloodsail-buccaneers]

If anything screams alliance favor it’s that FP… I actually feel bad for the horde on that front! lol

Uh huh… have you seen the portal to Mechagon? Sweet sweet portal to Mechagon.

[Midare-area-52 (Midare)]

Again are you new in the game ? the impact of guild swaping to a faction made a huge impact .

No, this is simply not true.

When big guilds left the Horde, the Horde raiding scene remained as active as always.

[Valarían-hydraxis]

I dont think they care, Alliance War-mode participation was really low and they still did’nt and dont show signs of addressing the problem thus far. imho

[Rvm-tichondrius]

No, this is simply not true.

When big guilds left the Horde, the Horde raiding scene remained as active as always.

Name one please ?

[Badtz-bloodsail-buccaneers]

I hear you, but if that number of absurdly low… and the queue times for battlegrounds is awful… well, then they might have to help their horde peeps out.