When are Gdruid buffs coming?

Classes Druid
126

You really haven’t been reading the threads in this forum of late, have you?

First of all, most Guardian Druids aren’t really all that concerned about how Guardian Druid is doing right now, in patch 8.3, because we are literally on the cusp of a new expansion. As far as we’re concerned, this patch is pretty much over. Guardian Druids aren’t going to change prior to pre-patch.

Secondly, Blizzard can buff Mangle and Thrash all they like - that isn’t addressing the underlying issues at the base of the spec, issues I suspect that a level 11 Troll Warrior wouldn’t understand. For instance, the lack of a slow, magic damage mitigation, spell casting, tank identity, etc., etc. Guardian Druids are only doing OK at the moment, and this largely because of azerite traits, essences, and corruption effects - all of which will be going away come SL.

On the matter of the buffs you mentioned: do you realize why Blizzard implemented them in the first place? It’s because Guardian Druids were not doing OK - they certainly were not “Strong.” Those buffs are band-aid fixes, sad attempts to patch up the sinking boat that is Guardian Druid. Guardian Druids have been underperforming all BFA - hence the buffs, and they’re likely to fall back down to the bottom of the barrel come SL without some sorely needed attention. The time for band-aid fixes, patch ups, and crutches in the form of new systems is coming to an end. Something has got to change. The underlying issues need to be addressed, or this is just going to be an ongoing buff/patch up cycle.

My advice to you, Mr. Troll, is to do your research first before opening you big yap and tangling with the bears - unless you like your uninformed opinions being mangled and mauled to death unceremoniously.

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127

Hello sir, the forums for beta are over yonder. These are for live. You seem to be lost.

Monk and warrior can maintain 100% uptime on their slows, but only 20%

Paladin doesn’t have a baseline slow

Bdk can slow one target at a time, or up to three in their D+D

VDH has no baseline slows.

I’m confused?

You mean that thing that all tanks struggle with, by design, along with bleeds? Right.

You need your class fantasy in order?

What.

Read;strong

You mean that thing that will affect literally everyone bar none?

Typically buffs are given to those that are not strong. I’m glad you reached this momentous conclusion.

All of BFA? It’s really strange, that people have continued to play it in higher level content, and it’s become notably more popular as time has gone on.

This sounds like how nearly every spec is talked about in class discords.

So you can chill with the fetishistic roleplay crap.

Something tells me I’m significantly more informed on how bears perform.

Anyone who preferred intim was objectively wrong. That’s not a matter of opinion, ursols is flat out better.

I’m aware of that. I have to wonder if you even understand what it was fixing.

None of it has a major impact? Alrighty, scale it back to Uldir, and compare how bear performs in a vacuum, then to now. The difference is pretty marked. Almost as though, it’s never quite as severe as people make it out to be, and simple fixes are typically all that’s needed to perform similarly to others of the same role.

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128

So since this is for “live” only, then there’s no point in feedback. Gotcha.

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129

You still never answered my question Derez.

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Lack of a slow and magic mitigation. Reminds me of warrior!

131

I’m going to make this nice and easy for everyone - I’m going to sum up the extent of your “Vast knowledge” of Guardian Druids, make it plain for all to see:

Please go away, Mr. Troll. You’re wasting everyone’s time.

Thanks for your time,

Barespanks

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132

I’m working on Mythic N’zoth now, what’s specifically harder for us than other tanks? We’re only about 1/2 through with the fight and working on getting our Evoke Anguish placement down before we start the Mythic only phase, so if it’s that phase I don’t have experience yet. I haven’t played my other tanks much this xpac either (only some heroic bosses on my monk and pally), so I don’t have a great comparison.

I definitely wish I had my monk’s statue for the psychophages, but I assume every non-monk tank is a bit jealous of that thing. I can’t think of much else but I’ve mostly just played bear since Wrath or so, except for part of early WoD when bear was in an awful, awful state so I might just be too used to bear to really see it’s issues compared to other tanks.

I do think bears are ok right now, but just ok and just bearly (I had to). I’m a bit worried about Shadowlands and planning to level and gear my monk just in case it gets even worse.

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133

Do you not remember how Guardian Druids played at the start of BFA, before all the new rental powers kicked in to smooth things over?

Thanks for your time,

Barespanks

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134

I’m just talking about right now, not at the start of BFA. I’m also just mostly interested in the Mythic N’Zoth thing in case there’s a nasty surprise I don’t know about waiting for me

135

I remember, couldn’t get a +10 pug for weeks because I wasn’t a DK. A full-time healer on a Bear wasn’t enough to make up for how strong DKs were.

We lack so many tools other tanks get, what do we get in return?
We get taxed so god damn hard for the “potential” of our non-Guardian skills, that are functionally useless most, if not all, of the time for us.

Right now really doesn’t matter, there is so much borrowed power homogenization, we might as well be mobile totems for corruption effects. Do you want to be the Twilight Devastation (or 50% vers) totem with an AoE speed increase, or the Twilight Devastation (or 50% vers) totem with an AoE health buff? The power creep has become unreal, and the base spec abilities are pretty much a non-factor when your dps blows up dangerous mobs in moments.

Its probably better to look at Guardian at the start of BFA versus other tanks at the start of BFA, because that is closer to what our relative power/strengths/weaknesses are going to be.

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136

Eh, I didn’t have that issue. I pugged a +10 the first or second week keys were out. We went WAY over time, but to be fair it was Waycrest with Sanguine and Necrotic and when the G’huun adds liked to walk through walls. Ugh.

You’re right about most of that, though. It kinda seems like all the other tanks have super useful abilities/utilities. I wouldn’t doubt it’s because of the non-guardian skills, even though we can’t put em to use a lot of the time.

Anyway, I didn’t want to get caught up in the debate. I really just wanted to know why Mythic N’zoth is such an issue for bears, since I’m still working on getting him down.

137

No problem. I understand. There are some Guardian Druids kicking around here that can answer that question for you, I’d imagine.

Thanks for your time,

Barespanks

138

There’s no denying that Guardian Druids are going to be way worse in SL. Anyone saying otherwise and stating that Guardian doesn’t need buffs, is delusional.

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139

I think I pugged all 10 keys the first or second week of the patch. Also not sure if I timed. Other classes are just better.

In fact, I started a brand new blood dk last week. Leveled it, geared it and did a 10+. I could easily get all the rest 10+ done rn, just RL duties call. The 10+ I did, on time, was KR, my least favorite dungeon.

Despite this, Warrior, monk, Paladin, etc, are all better tanks.

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140

Psychophages are indeed the problem, and it’s not just the monk statue. Our lack of a slow makes kiting them problematic while also maintaining control.

Can it be done? Sure. Although I’m told by others that Psychus 2 is particularly difficult for bears (I haven’t actually seen a successful log of somebody doing it, in fact, although I haven’t checked every single bear log).

We need to rely on other forms of snare (such as Remorseless Winter, Hunter abilities, etc.) because we can’t provide it. Blizzard’s cheap cop-out this expansion was Honeypot Pie, but that only works when they melee you so it’s ineffective against Psychophages since they don’t just run up and take a swing at you.

Out of control psychophages lead to sanity losses which lead to cuckoo players which lead to wipes. Can it happen with other tanks? Sure, but not to the extent that we have problems with it, simply because we don’t apply a slow.

(Corruption has also made this a lot easier since psychophages die a lot faster. Thought Harvesters also used to hit like a ton of bricks, but also not really an issue since they fall over much quickly now that we all overgear the fight.)

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141

Ok, thanks for the reply. I’ve heard Psychus 2 is just more difficult in general, not just for us, especially if you send mostly/entirely ranged down there (which makes sense to do). A lot harder to get and keep the adds.

I’ve been just going a bit nuts with the psychophages. Corral them together and try to get them to cast well away from my melee buddies and use Typhoon or Incapacitating Roar if I need to interrupt several. It’s annoying, and especially difficult trying to corral them while that one basher is up before Psychus 2 finishes but I kinda like the challenge.

And you’re definitely right there, every now and then I’ll get lucky and TD will decimate a big chunk of them. The first time we made it to the Thought Harvesters my cotank was down so I had to take both; I was not at all expecting them to hit that hard. I think it was around 850k DTPS having two of 'em on me with two Mindwracks and no CDs, more than twice what heroic Shad’har did solotanking. Live and learn, though, right?

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142

And? Beta discussion happens everywhere. It is relevant to everyone with any investment in any spec; relative changes are important.

I’m not surprised that you’re confused. Not because it’s hard to understand, however.

20% slow is more than 0% slow, thus maintaining permanent distance from a target or targets is possible. Both monks and warriors also have means of moving away from targets on extremely short cooldowns, which means that 20% slow is enough to keep targets away.

Paladin doesn’t need a baseline slow; they have a permanent 50% slow on their talent tree with essentially zero competition in it. Judgment of light is “fine”, but the vast majority of it is fluff healing. Aegis of light is not often used.

BDK can rotate targets to slow, but more importantly, has a 90% diminishing slow on death and decay, which again allows them to move away from targets long enough to sustain distance, on a low (and resettable) cooldown.

VDH does not need baseline slows; it has infernal leap.

I’m not really sure what you have against talented slows; maybe your argument is that the talented options available to bears are comparable to the talented options of Paladin and DK? They aren’t.

Except that they don’t. That said, I don’t think that variations in weaknesses is that big of a deal.

As do most people. We could all just play as untextured minecraft blocks with abilities called “hit” and “hit bigger”; it wouldn’t be fun. Classes need to be fun for people to enjoy playing them. Guardian is extremely bland.

Affecting literally everyone, but not affecting everyone equally. Classes that have well-rounded base kits feel less bad than classes propped up by borrowed power. Bear has significant holes filled by borrowed power.

It has become more popular because borrowed power has made it perform better, and it retains its stupidly easy gameplay.

Not everyone is right. Not everyone is wrong. Some are right. Some are wrong.

That is entirely a matter of opinion. Ursol’s is good, because it partially fills a large weakness, but it would also be better to have back the passive snare we had in the first place and inexplicably lost, and maintain intimidating roar, which was good as an aoe interrupt.

Playing Bear currently feels like walking around as a sack of angry potatoes. It has no flash, no style, no strong reason to pick it over another option, no redeeming features… it just exists. It’s bland beyond words, and gets played because its easy and its good “enough”, rather than good. It’s the beige curtains of tanks.

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143

Beautifully said.

Thanks for your time,

Barespanks

144

The conduits were not very great

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145

+12% of garbage damage still results in garbage damage.

inb4 “but guardians have great damage”:
We only have passable damage now because corruptions like Twilight Devastation are propping it up by a significant margin.
Once corruptions go away, bye bye passable damage and hello garbage damage again. :confused:

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