Whats with the massive gear gap in BGs?

[Kitanana-sargeras (Kitanana)]

Because i go wpvp and i need gear for that

[Kitanana-sargeras (Kitanana)]

No, what i’m saying is, YOU -who doesn’t have time to sit around and get a group- should not be rewarded equally as someone who invests more than you and succeeds at a higher difficulty than you (rated play).

If you want to solo then go for it, that’s within your power and awesome that you can. You just need to understand that you will be reward accordingly for your efforts.

I ran out of likes so

[Inemia-rexxar (Inemia)]

the issue with forcing people to group up is that it doesn’t reward skill, but time invested. in wrath the lich king heroic had a pull limit to keep groups from just brute forcing a kill with 450+ wipes, it meant you needed skill more than perseverance. rated pvp is both finding a group and finding a group of skilled players. if you want a high rating the idea of “just ask a guildie” or “just pug a yolo” simply won’t do, and for many people the idea of sifting through 150-200 people before you find a perfect 10 man group for RBGs is too much to ask for.

At the height of this game WotLK, group play was how you geared. In fact, as “welfare epics” began to be introduced the outcry was loud and the game started to decline and -never- recovered. (Talking subs as popularity)

i don’t really think catering to solo players is the reason subs have declined, you can point to a myriad of reasons, but the major decline in subs happened in the tail end of MoP, not wrath.

you also need to look at the playerbase, its not made of teens and 20 somethings living in their parent’s basement anymore, but working adults with way less time than they used to have. in wrath i put 50-60 hours a week into wow, i can barely put more than 10-15 in now, and it has nothing to do with the game or any of the changes made since wrath.

of the time i do have to play wow, a lot of it is eaten up with the timegated BS the devs put in, do chores, farm mats, earn gold. very little is left for group stuff. hell i don’t even run mythics unless its a guild group because i just don’t have the patience to deal with IOsnobs with half my skill pointing at some arbitrary pointless number like it means something. so after all that do you think i want to deal with putting a bg group or arena team together? hell no. but blizz still needs to cater to me and players like me because we pay them money. when the game stops being fun the money stops flowing.

[Tomten-arygos (Tomten)]

Friend, i’ve played since the very first day of this game and i can tell you that while more solo friendly than the other games at the time… group play was necessary to get nearly anything done.

At the height of this game WotLK, group play was how you geared. In fact, as “welfare epics” began to be introduced the outcry was loud and the game started to decline and -never- recovered. (Talking subs as popularity)

And I have played this game from inception as well, and gear may be the focus of the OP, but wasn’t the point of my disagreement with your post. I can agree that “welfare epics” are bad for the game, and I certainly agree that higher level content should have higher rewards. But the stupid condescending cliché “MMOs aren’t really for you” is getting very old.

Solo play has been actively discouraged in recent expansions, for example, everything is gated behind group PvE content. That wasn’t always the case and deliberately alienating part of the player base does nothing to regain the other previously alienated portion of the player base.

Part of the popularity of the early game was the flexibility, casual and hardcore had support for their play style.
What has ruined the game is development that tries to force a particular play style on the population rather than trying to accommodate the various play styles of that population.

[Lothlòria-mannoroth (Lothlòria)]

'Ah, that would explain why the recent expansions that try to force you into group PvP are so much more popular than the original game and early expansions where fun and interesting solo play was supported along side of the group PvE.

EXACTLY! And it explains how to go from 14 MILLION users down to less than 5 MILLION. Force everyone to group up to achieve things you used to be able to do solo.

Like I said earlier, too many people have busy lives, if we didn’t have to waste our entire weekend trying to find a group that doesn’t suck to actually PVP for our gear instead of having to PVE>PVP>GEAR this game would explode with new users.

No one wants to be forced into group play.

[Dangerjosh-wyrmrest-accord (Dangerjosh)]

No one wants to be forced into group play.

in an MMO. In a 10-40 man PLAYER VERSUS PLAYER map. Okay.

[Vanx-shandris (Vanx)]

Vanilla forced far more grouping than the game does now for competitive end-game gear.

[Yarrow]

At the height of this game WotLK, group play was how you geared.

And Wrath of the Lich King was when the subscriber base quit growing and started declining. Not a good argument.

[Magnificent-lightninghoof (Magnificent)]

I don’t know man. Current WoW i can solo 5+ mobs non stop, my mana doesn’t go down at all, and can do most things by myself if i’m inclined. I have access to raids (LFR) i have access to BGs (Random), Dungeons, where i click a button and get magically ported to the instance.

I guess what i’m saying is solo play has never been easier or more rewarding. If the OP is having problems with how solo play is currently implemented then maybe the game isn’t for them.

As far as PVP, the early game you Q up or do Wpvp, you are crushed to bits as a casual by raiders or honor grinders. Now, you can hop on a fresh 120 and do just fine in a bg or even arena. I’d say that’s a lot of support for solo, or time crunched players.

[Magnificent-lightninghoof (Magnificent)]

Currently gearing has never been easier in the history of WoW. And since we don’t have the ability to look at subs these days the game might be in it’s most unpopular state.

[Inemia-rexxar (Inemia)]

And Wrath of the Lich King was when the subscriber base quit growing and started declining. Not a good argument.

a big thing people forget about wrath was that was 2008, and there was a huge boost in subscribers from newly unemployed people, subs started declining when they went back to work.

[Magnificent-lightninghoof (Magnificent)]

Boil it down and Loth just wants free gear for no work.

[Inemia-rexxar (Inemia)]

in an MMO. In a 10-40 man PLAYER VERSUS PLAYER map. Okay.

imagine in battlefield or cod if you couldn’t play until you got a group together, solo queuing into group matches is the norm for most games now. the only thing wow is really missing from modern multiplayer is mixing the teams up between matches, which would really help queue times.

[Yarrow]

No one wants to be forced into group play.

in an MMO. In a 10-40 man PLAYER VERSUS PLAYER map. Okay.

So, you only queue 40 man epic battlegrounds in a group?

[Dangerjosh-wyrmrest-accord (Dangerjosh)]

imagine in battlefield or cod if you couldn’t play until you got a group together

Name an MMO to make the comment relevant imo.

You don’t even HAVE to group now. You have the option to play the group content as a solo person. But, when doing so you are aware of what you are getting yourself into. That’s on you. Take matters in to your own hands, try to improve the time you have playing this game instead of leaving the entire experience up to RNG and rejoice in the great time you have playing a group battleground in a massively multiplayer game.

So, you only queue 40 man epic battlegrounds in a group?

I said 10-40. that - means I’m referencing range from 10 to 40.

[Inemia-rexxar (Inemia)]

Name an MMO to make the comment relevant imo.

mmo simply means massively multiplayer online, not forced social gathering. the complaint people have is the forced socialization part, not the massively multiplayer part. people that want to play single player games don’t play mmos, but that doesn’t mean everyone who plays mmos wants to socialize or be forced to find a group for every little thing they want to do. there’s a big difference between asking for something like solo-queue (where you don’t want to have premade groups) and asking for everything to be singleplayer.

[Dangerjosh-wyrmrest-accord (Dangerjosh)]

I don’t think you understand the role solo queuers play in random queues. Solo queuers are fillers for premades that aren’t full 5. Instead of making a grouped party of 3 players wait until a group of 2 players queues, you can get 2 solo queue players. If you queue as filler, you shouldn’t be surprised when used as filler.

[Inemia-rexxar (Inemia)]

I don’t think you understand the role solo queuers play in random queues. Solo queuers are fillers for premades that aren’t full 5. Instead of making a grouped party of 3 players wait until a group of 2 players queues, you can get 2 solo queue players. If you queue as filler, you shouldn’t be surprised when used as filler.

the problem with this view is that you fail to consider that perhaps solo-queuers don’t want to be your filler. they are people too and are just as entitled to their view as you are to yours. simply calling them filler for your game is rather self centered don’t you think? the game doesn’t revolve around you.

[Dangerjosh-wyrmrest-accord (Dangerjosh)]

I’m well aware solo queuers are people too, and they deserve to enjoy their time playing this game just as much as I do. Which is why I encourage those people to take matters into their own hands and do something to improve their gaming time. I only look down on solo queuers who look down at premaders like they’re doing something wrong. Solo queuing into our current system and being disappointed/surprised/shocked/infuriated that there is a premade in there is wrong. I’m not saying one way itself is right and one is wrong, you just need to have realistic expectations.

[Vanx-shandris (Vanx)]

I like soloing but I’d quit the game if I couldn’t group with friends when I want to. Solo queuers have to be in the same pool as premades or queue times would be much worse than they are now.