What's with all the alliance hiding under the bridge?

WoW Classic WoW Classic General Discussion
21

My facts are not flawed, yours are.

The distance is ALL that matters

Reinforcements are KEY in any war.

We Rez at SPGY and we need to reinforce IBGY when we take it as it’s our FIRST SOUTHERN GRAVEYARD.

When horde lose it they spawn 20 seconds away now at DOUBLE THE RATE.

If you’re going to be this blind I can see why you don’t understand the map or how impactful the horde advantage is.

This isn’t about SPGY to SHGY. It’s SPGY to IBGY so we can KEEP a graveyard.

You should also note that if we lose SHGY we Rez in 90 seconds away at SPGY, we will never get south again. Horde don’t need to DEFEND ANYTHING, they can full send SHGY and when it’s capped we lose out from the choke going south.

Horde lose IBGY because they don’t even need to try and defend it. So it’s 40 horde at SHGY VS 20-30 alliance because we need to TAKE SOMETHING to PUSH SOUTH. Once horde have SHGY they can easily send 20 to retake IBGY while they defend SHGY for the 5 minutes.

If you can’t understand simple math I’m not sure what to tell you

You’re coming off as another horde AV PvP hero with no other PvP experience to speak of. I guess congrats? You’re finally good at a form of imbalanced PvP.

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22

If you need to start insulting me it already begins to show that your points might not be that strong.

Alliance doesn’t NEED to leave shgy to take ibgy. It’s the strategy you are taking. Alliance could fight and keep shgy and push back to ibgy. Often the case. But the reality is most alliance rankers left av and it spiraled down to “we can’t win, let’s make rep”. Nothing prevent alliance to fight from shgy and eventually take ibgy. Hard ? sure. Long ? Yeah.

Running time is almost the same from spgy gy for alliance / cave for horde cause you cannot mount in the cave.

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23

First I wasn’t insulting you. I was pointing out that you have none, this isn’t an opinion it’s a factual statement based off your retail character. A quick look into your armory confirms this.

Secondly, you are comparing our cave distance to SPGY vs Horde cave to IBGY, this isn’t the topic of this debate. Like I have said, the issue at hand is hordes cave to IBGY vs us being able to reinforce IBGY FROM SPGY.

The reason we lose IBGY before it hard caps and even after it hard caps is because horde Rez at their cave when it’s taken.

Think of it like this the equivalent of this scenario would be our cave being next to SHGY, plenty of horde have commented of the fact it takes upwards of an hour to take SHGY while we defend it. Now imagine if our cave was located like yours was, 20 seconds from SHGY. You would face the same impossible fight, it takes horde in most fights upwards of an hour to take SHGY while we respawn 10 at a time, imagine if we spawned 20.

Correct we can send 20 to IBGY to take it, but then those 20 left to defend SHGY are fighting 40 horde. I guess we are bad and can’t win a 20 VS 40 is your point?? I love how you say this as a strat especially when horde don’t need to defend their counterparts to SHGY, IBGY.

Do you understand why you don’t need to defend IBGY?? It’s because your cave sits next to it and not only is it 20 seconds away but it lets you Rez double the normal amount. Imagine if the map was equal and when you lost IBGY you now Rez at RHGY. You know 1 minute away and 10 at a time like Alliance. Don’t you think Horde might need to DEFEND IBGY now??

Also our alliance advantage you pointed out is silly. The bridge isn’t used till TBC when you know they fix the cave rez’s, which actually HURT alliance as when we die at SPGY we Rez in our cave instead of the NEXT HORDE OBJECTIVE and that prevents a bridge defense.

Also to note is when we lose SPGY the games over anyway because once again defense CANT win the game UNTIL tbc, so why would we have 40 defend?? We would lose SPGY rez and our cave and finally go south to get SOMETHING out of the BG.

I’m sorry if you can’t see how all of this adds up to our win/loss rate. Alliance don’t try in AV for a reason. Let’s go look at all those fix wsg map for alliance or fix AB map for alliance…oh wait they don’t exist.

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24

You’re wrong.

I have no idea how you can come in here and say you’ve actually read about the issues and make posts like that.

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25

All these points are irrelevant because every game where IBGY or SHGY gets hard capped by the enemy faction the game is pretty much over. Its a bit easier for horde to come back from a IBGY hardcap because there isn’t a god awful choke like there is at IWB but it still is almost impossible to come back from.

Towers are irrelevant and the base layout is irrelevant. By the time those things even factor into the game its already pretty much over unless the losing side suddenly gets way stronger and starts crushing fights consistently.

The entire game is dictated based on what happens with SHGY and IBGY and horde have a massive advantage in that area.

26

I have none what, experience in av ? This is my retail alt I like to write in forums with. I can assure you I have many 60s in Classic and each of them played a lot in AV. I actually have one rank 13 and four ranks 11 (well some deranked now of course).

I have to disagree : in the present conversation, I was not comparing alliance cave distance to SPGY vs. horde cave to IBGY. At all events, yes it is an imbalance but it doesn’t prevent alliance to win, just make it a bit longer.

You’re saying the reason alliance loses IBGY before it hard cap it is because horde rez at their cave when it’s taken. I disagree. Alliance is losing ibgy because the 40 allies doesn’t stack at ibgy and because the 40 allies doesn’t prevent horde from leaking and go take shgy. In order to prevent this, alliance would have to work hard yes, that I agree.

Now time it. Time how long it takes for alliance rezzing at spgy to get back at shgy : 47 seconds or so. It looks longer than horde rezzing in cave - IBGY distance it’s almost the same. It’s (almost) an illusion to think otherwise. Horde rezzing in cave have to walk and it takes 40 seconds to get from cave to IBGY. 40 sec vs 47 sec. Not a big difference in time. Actually, might be less than 47 seconds for alliance. I need to try an alternate way.

Now let’s be careful with your example : shgy fight is hard for horde cause alliance rez next to it. Not because your cave is far. It takes like 5 seconds to rez at shgy and spin shgy flag. Just like horde would trying to prevent ibgy to be cap. So I don’t think your example applies at all.

The mistake is to send 20 to ibgy while trying to defend shgy. My point is not that alliance is bad overall. But less rankers are in av ally side so it makes a difference. And since rankers all left av at the same time back when they were prevented to premade it, it had a terrible impact on the whole meta alliance side.

And no, again it’a mirage, horde cave is not that close to ibgy cause hordes have to walk a certain distance before mounting. I don’t know what is rhgy, never heard of it. If you mean fwgy, it’s actually faster for horde to rez at fwgy and go ibgy than rezzing in cave. Again, it doesn’t seem accurate, but again, I timed it.

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27

But if you hold SHGY then it’s SHGY to IBGY?

28

No, I don’t think I’m wrong and yeah I already saw these videos. Read my posts, I did my own research and I timed many stuff in AV.

I saw the first video a few weeks ago and, while it’s entertaining, it fails to really analyze AV. It’s made by a streamer who wants audience. Yes horde can reach middle before alliance and yes it’s an imbalance. Now it doesn’t prevent alliance to fight back and push back horde from shgy. That situation doesn’t give a strategic advantage, it only makes the fight longer for alliance.

As for summoning world bosses, I also agree alliance summoning spot is more exposed and that it is an imbalance. However, horde summoning spot can be impossible to use if alliance control sfgy. Alliance summoning spot is protected by a tower. It’s never a one side story.

At all events, like I said, there is imbalances in favor of alliance too on other points.

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29

Jeromagnus, there are big advantages for Alliance. You mentioned the bunkers already, but in hundreds of AV games I have played not once have I seen Alliance try to hold and defend a bunker. They are a huge competitive advantage, they can be very difficult to capture if Alliance defends them. They will cite it is poor efficiency for them to defend the bunker, but of course if Alliance do not defend the bunkers; especially Icewing Bunker then they are just throwing away a huge advantage in my opinion.

30

They also ignore the defensive advantage their cave gives them when the bridge comes into play (SPGY soft / hard capped by horde)

The bridge is the best defensive choke in the game that let’s a 20ish team of alliance hold off 40 horde. It also has a 30/Rez cycle capability if you know where to die to Rez on which side (cave or aid station) this let’s alliance have a strong defensive holding, a decent backdoor to go south for offensive, and access to flank the horde for easier defending by killing healers (or distracting them so any horde crossing the bridge get meat grindered by the aoe from defending alliance)

Or the advantage those bunkers across the bridge give for extra damage, forced to stay in combat so Mana can’t be regained, cast pushback/cap interrupt, exc.

But they never mention that, they complain about horde having a head start (which results in horde fighting alliance surrounded by alliance npc) and the IWB choke for heading south, which is a good area of about 40 yards of option to cross so no aoe covers it anywhere near like the bridge, if alliance are only following the road, then it’s a strong choke, but they have a path up the hill about to avoid the road choke. They can also run into the bunker to get past that way if horde somehow have that 40 yard stretch of open area locked down. Stealth can get by, cap stuff in the south (drawing horde away from the IWB choke) to make passing the 40 yards choke easier. But they don’t do this 99% of the time, they don’t defend their bridge 99% of the time. Sure one or two alliance might try to defend the bridge, but they give up when the reach their best defensive power, which ironically opens them to have much more offensive power with less need on numbers to defend and letting the natural terrain and NPC help keep horde back, while your offensive team does work.

Because alliance don’t bother using these advantages 99% of the time, they only win 1% of the time (outside of AV weekend when good alliance players return).

And they wonder why they have such a low winrate, must be the map… Can’t have anything to do with them giving up when they are at their best defensive (and offensive) spot.

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31

this clown thinks AV is “competitive” lol they afk rep farming. AV is not for honor on alliance side

33

This shows you ARE wrong.

Wow. This is just one bit of delusional ramblings out of several. You have absolutely nothing right.

Forty Alliance are never going to reach IBGY. Not even thirty. Dismounting and fighting usually means a turtle in the mid with Horde eventually having double reinforcements by capping SF. This means the turtle is moved back to SH due to flanking.

If people don’t dismount and fight, the slower mounts are picked off guaranteed. (This is one of the reasons why the majority of premades required 100% mounts.) Either way Alliance choose to zerg IBGY, whether to the right or the left, Horde can easily adjust and crash into the Alliance team. (This is where that pesky little thing known as “distance” comes into play.) If ten Alliance make it to IBGY, this is an accomplishment.

If more than that make it, this is an indication that the Horde team is absolutely terrible and there’s slight glimmer of hope for a win if the Alliance team plays perfectly. That’s usually not the case. If a soft cap is achieved, it doesn’t last long enough for Alliance to actually rez there and make a difference. If IBGY is hard capped, Alliance have usually managed to cap SF. Again, this means the Horde team is either comatose or complete morons.

If Horde have control of SF, you have a flank from SF and cave rezzers as well.

So how much better do Alliance have to be to actually win an AV? About 5X better. And this you call “balanced.”

You can’t use made up numbers to push your narrative. It’s wrong, which makes you wrong.

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34

“You’re wrong”, “Rambling”, “Delusional”. Can’t say it helps the discussion. Sure you can try to convince yourself you’re right and I’m wrong but that is not what is going to make you right. And by the way, when I say “i don’t think I’m wrong” I am just being honest but it does not mean I am wrong lol !. It means prove me wrong if I am.

You’re pretending 40 allies cannot reach ibgy. But can you explain why 40 hordes can reach shgy and take it ? Sure it’s easier for hordes cause they can reach shgy faster. But nothing prevent alliance to fight back his way to ibgy. Longer ? Yes. Harder ? No. Prove me wrong. Explain to me what would a prevent a good alliance stack to push back horde stack to ibgy. No reason at all. When the alliance is stronger, they start to do it but then it falls apart in midfield cause no leadership.

The horde team is usually far from terrible cause you have a lot of rankers. This is the reason why alliance mostly loses. Alliance side there is few rankers/good players cause they are in wsg/ab. I mean it seems so obvious this is the reason why the horde wins. Plus the fact the waiting time is so long horde side they really want to win. While alliance it’s instant queue so they don’t care that much.

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35

It’s about 90% of the reason they lose…

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36

I don’t understand this. Are horde rankers not running 10/15 man premades? Are they splitting groups just for AV? I have an add on that shows average rank per group and I’m just not seeing this in AV.

You don’t seem to grasp the concept that alliance zerging IBGY and losing SHGY is high risk while horde zerging SHGY and losing IBGY is not because horde have a cave rez advantage to get IBGY back that alliance do not have at SHGY.

I’d be interested in seeing this video because I have been in several groups who group up there rather than get farmed at SPGY before moving south.

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37

You mean soft cap? Yes. Holding it? Debatable. As a caster you have no room on horde towers making close combat unavoidable if you intend on keeping it. Both have pros and cons.

So our final base, or last stand rather… is the alliance “advantage”. Yes our last desperate attempt to string out the game while still having to backcap gy’s and pass the infamous iwb choke is all too powerful. I’ve won games that way sure. But horde usually have lok rolling in our base by that time if they’re smart.

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38

I never said I didn’t kill them, but if you wanted to know I did kill them after reporting them for being afk

39

No, the map may cause alliance to win 45/55, but that 44/45 that converts to losses is from player issues. Evidence of this is durring AV weekend alliance winrate jumps up to near 40%, when alliance still have their dead weight players. I personally find 10+ afk/leacher alliance every game (excluding AV weekend when I see maybe 5) with eagle eye, track humanoids, and invis potions. But when I showed evidence of this the map criers turned to personal attacks because they don’t want to even begin to understand a good portion of their losses are from their own defeatist mentality infestation on the alliance team.

The map isn’t perfect, but it’s nowhere near as unbalanced as alliance map criers would have you believe.

40

What evidence?

I’ve been queuing AV on my mage this past week and what I’ve seen is alliance groups going all in up to and until they lose SHGY with nothing south of there. We’ve spent enough time playing that song and dance to know how it ends.

41

AV weekend was not this past week.

On top of that you give up before horde are at bridge, bridge is your strongest defensive spot and allows for you to send more onto offensive team.

I’ve lost multiple AV on AV weekend. Because of alliance not giving up after SHGY was lost to the horde.

AV weekend alliance have stealthers capping towers/GY AV weekend has alliance actually using aoe in fights and having far less afk/leachers. Because people who want to play AV and not just roll over que up more for AV weekend.

You giving up 5 minutes into the game is why you lose. AV is not meant to be a 5 minute base rush and end game.

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