What would make you not want to DPS in m+?

Community General Discussion
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So this is sort of a continuation of this thread: Too many DPS in m+: A different perspective

Whom this thread concerns:

In this thread I’m aiming the question towards those of you that currently play only or mostly a DPS in m+, but aren’t vehemently against tanking/healing in general. In other words, if DPS suddenly became absolutely atrocious, you wouldn’t quit WoW, you’d just roll a tank/healer instead. If you’re a player who would quit WoW the moment the DPS role wasn’t fun instead of trying/swapping to a tank/healer, this question isn’t directed to you.

Why am I asking?

I’m constantly seeing complaints both here in the forums and in the game itself about the queues being too long as a DPS. It’s been suggested time and time again to make tanks/healers easier, less responsible, more rewarding etc, but it’s yet to work.

Tanks were neigh invincible in Dragonflight, yet we still saw people waiting for them.

Healers are only as hard as your group is making it. With a group that plays well you’ll find that in all keys within the reward range (0-10) you’ll mostly have yourself to worry about, aside from the occasional heal check.

So obviously buffing/simplifying tanks/healers within reason isn’t working, so rather than focusing on making those roles more attractive I want to focus on making the DPS role less attractive to reduce the current abundance of DPS in m+.

What am I asking?

Let’s say we don’t want Blizzard to change the fundamentals of the game (group size, m+ being grouped content, the trinity etc.).

I’m curious as to what would have to change about the DPS role in general for you to move away from it and pick up a tank/healer instead. What does Blizzard have to change with the DPS role for you to become part of a solution by re-rolling into a tank/healer and thus reducing the surplus of DPS playing m+?

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Some d-bag spamming damage meters after every single trash pull when that d-bag has not interrupted, not CC’ed, and otherwise done nothing but pad the meter. Then insults everyone else while moving to the next trash pull. Except that made me quit M+ in general after about the 6th time it happened back in Legion.

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I’ve played both tank and healer, dps to me is the most satisfying. Nothing Blizzard can do to make me convert to the other two types again.

I like the responsibility of dps, knowing when to CC a group, proper interrupts, and when to use cooldowns with single targets and groups.

To me thats fun.

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Same as any other role… playing with nothing but pugs.

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The premise is simply wrong from the get go. There is no tank/healer problem or shortage, the game has plenty of them.

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That puts you into this category:

However, I’ll expand a little on this,
Since tanks/healers are also responsible for proper interrupts, cc, and cooldown management in single target and groups, what would you if we did something unreasonable, like cut DPS damage by 75%, or remove their cd’s entirely? Would it lead to you quitting WoW, or would it lead to you picking up a tank/healer instead?

I haven’t claimed there is. I’ve claimed there is an abundance of DPS in m+, which is true. You just haven’t read the post(s).

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Not really. dps is a role with 3 slots and way more in raid. It makes sense there is a lot of them.

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There’s currently many more playing (or attempting to play) as a DPS in m+ rather than a tank/healer though. Way more than 3 DPS for every tank/healer, which in turn means there’s an abundance of DPS in m+.

This thread isn’t about raiding, so there’s no need to bring that up as it’s not on topic.

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I think your logic of making the game worse for dps players to make the game better is wierd.

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That’s fine, I’m not expecting everyone to understand the purpose of it.

Since making the game easier/better for tanks/healers isn’t a functional choice, it needs to become harder/worse for the DPS to actually change something regarding the distribution between the roles.

If you want status quo and keep it as it is, you can just change nothing. You’ll have to accept the long queues and having to resort to always running your own keys unless you’re overqualified as a DPS though (unless you’ve got your own set group, in that case you’re not affected by these issues), which is what this is meant to adress.

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Make the group size 6. Each tank/healer combo would bring 33% more dps to each group.

People either want to play dps or don’t want to play a tank or healer for a variety of reasons, many of which have nothing to do with game mechanics and thus can’t be fixed with game mechanics. The role imbalance has been present in every MMO I’ve ever played in roughly 24 years.

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Honestly I think it just comes from within.

I DPS’d when i started the game (mid-SL) and predominantly in S1 of TWW.

I started tanking a long time in games before and i got a feel for it S1 of DF through to the end of DF. I just like leading and it’s kinda what I do in a lot of projects IRL so it kinda flows through to ingame. I’ll take the damage, I’ll take the fall and responsibility. Pretty much that’s where it comes from. Blood is amazing on top of it all cause of the self sustain.

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This fails on this premise:

But other than that and the problems that follows, that would help.

And if they’re vehemently against playing tanks/healers because of their general design, this thread isn’t directed towards them, as I stated in the post.

I’ll say it again:
This thread is for those of you who prefer to play as a DPS, but aren’t vehemently against playing a tank/healer. What would have to change with the DPS role for you to prefer the tank/healer role instead?

I think this question is impossible for people like you and me to answer, as we already prefer the tank/healer role. For us, nothing needs to change, the design of tanks/healers are already attractive enough when compared to that of a DPS.

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Yes, but any proposed changes would affect all dps. Which as established by the simple premise of the thread, is the majority of the players.

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Making DPS have the same responsibilities as Tanks and Healers. What do I mean by that?

Cooldown mismanagement has little impact – If a DPS uses an offensive cooldown at the wrong time, nothing really happens, at least in low and mid-level keys. For example, if someone burns a major cooldown when mobs are already at 5% HP, they won’t have it available for the next pull. Or if they waste a strong cooldown on small, non-threatening mobs. Meanwhile, if a Healer uses a healing cooldown at the wrong time, it can cost the group’s survival, especially if DPS don’t use or don’t have defensives available. This often leads to a wipe and contributes to breaking the key.

A DPS death doesn’t carry the same weight – If a DPS dies, it usually doesn’t affect the dungeon much. But if a Tank dies, it can be enough to wipe the group, even if someone manages to battle-ress them quickly. The time it takes for the Tank to regain aggro on all mobs can be fatal.

The Tank has to know the route, others just follow – In M+, the Tank usually has to plan and execute the dungeon route properly, while the rest of the group only needs to follow along and perform their roles. This puts more responsibility on the Tank, while DPS have more freedom to simply optimize their damage.

DPS don’t face the same pressure as Tanks and Healers – In general, if a DPS plays poorly, they can go unnoticed, especially if other DPS compensate for their damage. Tanks and Healers, on the other hand, are always under scrutiny. If a Tank mispositions, pulls too little or too much, they immediately get criticized. If a Healer lets someone die, even if it was the player’s fault for not using defensives, they might still get blamed. This creates an environment where Tanks and Healers must always be at their best, while DPS have more room for mistakes.

In short: if DPS had to deal with the same consequences as Tanks and Healers for misplays, I might consider going back to being a Healer/Tank next season.

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I think this is the core fear for a lot of players. In a few guilds I’ve been in tanking will often be the last thing people do because if they die, everyone usually does.

It’s generally OK to be at 70%-80% on some days as a DPS because you’ll likely still complete fine.

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Absolutely, I’m not denying that.

I’m just not interested in the opinion of die-hard DPS players, as those will either play a DPS or quit WoW entirely. There’s nothing that will ever influence them to be a part of the solution to the issue at hand.

Cool, I was wondering when this answer were going to show up. It’s basically the same principle that I suggested in the linked post then.

Happy to see someone who understands the point of it!

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Look, im gonna be honest. Im just sick and tired of 30-45 minute M+ dungeons. Whats even worse is the fact that it takes 3 or 4 of them to upgrade one piece of gear.

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I’ve got no idea what changes you mean would have to happen to the DPS role for you to switch to a tank/healer instead of playing your DPS. Care to elaborate?

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It’s an interesting question, I’m not even sure if my own answer is true or not, but I’ll take a stab at it because it’s fun to think about.

If they reduced groups to three, and fights had dps checks like Skarmorak shield, but other classes had to blow cooldowns to give you dps buffs, while you had to do some ridiculous mechanic in addition to a maxed out rotation, then I would probably stick to healing instead of dps.

The main reason I find dps so enjoyable and relaxing compared to tank and heal is because even if I play suboptimally, as long as it’s reasonably suboptimally, like 70-80%, we can pass the dungeon, and this is true for all three dps, because we are redundant.

Obviously there’s a minimum to this, but three lazy but reasonably competent dps can lol their way through a dungeon. Further, if they die, it’s not instawipe, like tank or (sometimes) healer. Movement through the dungeon doesn’t stop if I pause to sip coffee or scratch my nose when I’m on my dps characters.

So yeah, if the groups were reduced down to allow only one dps, and if while playing a dps, there was a chance for my party to wipe because of a particularly gross sneeze distracting me, and/or if there were DPS checks that I had to solo but could only succeed if I had external cooldowns and completed annoying mechanics while executing my rotation, I would consider it equal to healing, and play less dps.

But I think that would just make me play less wow overall, not heal more, so I don’t know if it’s a good answer to your question here.