Actually the Horde has been villain-batted for the bulk of this game.
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Iâm glad for you that you can believe that last bit. I really am. Never look to deep into the internet, please. Someone should stay pure.
There are two things thatâd settle the âdebtâ;
- An equal atrocity , or;
- A new status quo that prevents the Horde from doing so again.
The thing is, 1. is a pretty fundamental violation of what the Alliance stands for, even moreso than Teldrassil was for the Horde. To do so would just prove Sylvanas retroactively correct. 2 would be the only thing that could truly be construed as an Alliance victory.
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This thread is dumb and a good number of you should feel dumb into buying into it. Teldrassil isnât ever meant to be repaid and crying out that it should sows the seeds for another sh!tty faction war narrative xpac in the future.
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The irony of this thread is that we endured literally years of threads begging, demanding that Blizzard have the Alliance attack and try to take back Lordaeron. The destruction of Undercity was THE fantasy for certain types of Alliance players.
Over those same years we had (and another old-timer can correct me if Iâm wrong) literally zero threads demanding that the Horde attack or destroy Teldrassil.
Yet the OPâs first premise is that the destruction of Undercity doesnât mean anything.
OP, you got your trade-off: a capital for a capital, a zone for a zone. And the alliance got to take out the one Horde capital they wanted more than anything, while the Horde took out one they could care less about, and in a way that was written to make them feel bad about it. I would say you already came out ahead.
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Except you guys didnât really lose anything. Iâd be willing to bet Undercity is going to be cleaned up and ready to use as a capital again soon enough. Thatâs why it was only plagued instead of, say, bombed to collapse the entire thing. If Blizzard wanted Undercity destroyed it would have been.
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Thereâs a lot of reasons why the destruction of the Undercity may be unsatisfactory to someone invested in it. Thereâs four big ones; it was ultimately destroyed on Sylvanasâ own terms, the Allianceâs leadership got suckered and they were only saved by deus ex machina, the battle itself seemed to be a phyrric victory at best, and the Alliance didnât even remotely âget evenâ on the genocide aspect of Teldrassil that led into it (whether that means crossing that line themselves, or getting some kind of justice some other way).
If I were talking to someone who had a long-held fantasy of seeing Undercity destroyed, I would imagine that the way it ended up happening was profoundly underwhelming. I think youâre missing the point by leaning on the âcity for a city, zone for a zoneâ aspect. It was the framing that puts people off.
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Actually it was the RETAKING of Capital City which was the dream goal. That ainât happening.
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Undercity was payment enough. Too good of a payment to be honest. Undercity had way more lore significant then Teldrassil ever had. The construction of the city was a joint effort of humans, dwarves, and high elves and its name Lordaeron was derived from the combination of the Common, Dwarven and Thalassian language. And has been home to people for many generations.
Teldrassil on the other hand was nothing but a hand-me-down from Staghelm and constant reminder of his failures. And at best its only been the home of the night elves for 10+ years which is like 20 min to a night elf. Undercity was not only a full payment it came with interest.
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Undercity and the Troll raid werenât enough? Pretty sure the Horde are gonna start complaining about their constant defeats.
I donât know whatâs the matter with nelf fans. If Blizzard doesnât stroke their notions of elven superiority they start throwing a temper tantrum. Nelfs arenât Eldar, theyâre about as strong as regular humans.
Wrong. The Blight is lore proven to even destroy buildings. Just look at the once glorious town of Southshore and Gennâs refusal to go home to Gilneas. Lordaeron is destroyed.
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Alliance didnât want to destroy Lordaeron. They wanted to retake it for themselves.
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(Late for the party sry)
that nelf community sometimes gives me disgust.
letâs say some 900 symbolic pixels were âdeadâ.
and letâs say hundreds of players, real people who identify with the horde are having a bad experience with the expansion, for 6/8 months now. A good ending will not fix the bad journey and all this annoying time, all that experience that can not be erased like the past itself.
But alright, apparently your high moral ground put you to prioritize NPCs and devalue what real people are feeling.
All this âI suffered moreâ âno, I suffered moreâ âbut âââmyââ" NPCs suffered more"⊠is tiring.
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There are many Horde who would have also preferred to take Darnassus instead of blowing it up.
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And what the hell did the Alliance want with Lordaeron anyway? Transform into a proud museum of the Alliance?
As far as I know most of the population there has become Forsaken, so one way or another it was still their rightful city.
Transform the castle and give it as a gift to the princess who has never done anything to help her people or the real forsaken besides flee and receper support for free?
That would be annoying.
To strategically dominate the area? Well. Even with undercity destroyed, the Alliance has a great control of the place.
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What I would personally want for Night Elves is simply for them to reclaim their lands. As much as vengance goes I still believe that they would find it fitting just taking their lands back from the Hordeâs grap.
I also donât think they would naturally start a conquering path to the rest of Kalimdor as they have always been happy to stay in their own forests.
I do believe however that if Sylvanas is even in a position to be âdefeatedâ in anyway it should be done with the participation of night elves.
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I donât care about Lordaeron at all. Iâm one of the few Alliance players that actually believe it belongs to the Forsaken and should remain that way. They are after all the OG owners.
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I had forgotten Sylvanas built a bunch of catapults all by herself, lugged them all the way from Orgrimmar to Darkshore all by herself, killing entire towns along the way, ignited them all by herself, and fired them all by herself. And here I was, thinking the entirety of the Horde was responsible.
You mean the guy who killed the figurehead of the Alliance, and destroyed the leading state of the Alliance, well before he even thought about Quelâthalas?
A little louder, for the people in the back.
The Alliance has actual, living people in need of a reclaimed homeland, before they start conquering things for the lawls. The Gnomes, the Draenei, the Gilneans, and now the Night Elves are all in need of permanent homes, before worrying about a dead kingdom. I suppose Olâ Emma shows that some Lordaeronians became refugees in Stormwind, but most went to Theramore. And Garrosh solved that little refugee problem in the most Horde way possible.
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the entire concept of ârepaying Teldrassilâ is a rather silly notion. So we the Horde should allow the Alliance to destroy one of our cities to what purpose exactly? To appease the Alliance, or more specifically the Night Elves? Would that bring peace? No not in the slightest because by that definition the only way for the scales to balanced is for the utter destruction of the Horde, and lets be honest no society is going to allow itself to be wiped out to appease another.
Now you can make the strawman argument of the Horde could have refused to do it but thatâs a bit of a false statement. Had the Horde outright refused to carry out this action the forsaken would have still done it and they would be dead or in chains there was no stopping what was about to happen. The Warchief holds absolute power over the entirety of the horde meaning that she gains political advantages that are very hard to overcome.
The first being ease of action, when the warchief gives an order the other members of the horde are obligated to fulfill it. Now you could make the 13 year old argument of all they had to do was refuse to carry it out but the faction leaders arenât going to do this because as warchief she can bring the entire might of the horde down on their capital and install a new ruler with relative ease. the faction leaders require support from one another and with varying degrees of loyalty to the horde and the fact that both the orcs and trolls lack a true leader at the moment she would still have the bulk of the horde under her control. So while windrunner only needs to speak an order and it be carried out a faction leader would need to speak with the other faction leaders organize a plan of action they all agreed on and then execute that plan, all while running the risk that any of those leaders may be loyal to windrunner and reveal the plot before it can come into play.
Now you may say after the burning of teldrassil the everyone should have been outraged an thatâs true. We saw Saurfang openly speak out against her and she removed him from the picture thus removing a potential focal point of resistance. Baine again acts against the warchief and is arrested thus removing yet another focal point of resistance. So you canât really blame them for not acting they have and each time they have it has ended with them being removed from the picture.
He âsucceededâ his father in his own words⊠Not a military move from the Alliance I agree, but this doesnât erase the fact Arthas was the legitimate heir of the Kingdom and poor Therenas couldnât disown him before his son killed him. The fact Calia apparently was too busy playing house in Southshore to make the political claim of rejecting Arthas as a ruler just makes things worse⊠Heck, did the Alliance proper issue a communicate rejecting Arthas claim to the throne? Cause if they didnât, guess what?
Now, in regards to Wallurianâs more than absurd remark⊠Are you going to support his claim âHorde elvesâ have NEVER suffered an invasion of catastrophic proportions? Are you going to come and tell us the whole zombie apocalypse is somehow ânot Belf loreâ?
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Expanding on your snarky comment about Calia because that is not entirely correct, she was emotionally distraught her husband and daughter died with a bunch of ppl that she was close to, her BROTHER killed her father and became an undead mass murderer tool of demons and to top all of this, she was never meant to be queen, ergo, she wasnât groomed for any position in politics, she says so herself, that is why all that fiasco in arathi happened, we can blame therenas on this one, so yea i believe is reasonable if we cut her some slack.