I think that the free will promise only applied to those who were originally of Lordaeron or those undead she personally liberated from the Scourge. Enemies killed in battle arguably don’t apply.
That doesn’t really change the fact that someone formerly of the Scourge wouldn’t be too impressed to see their leader go around preaching free will then enslave someone just to ensure their species’ survival. Forsaken apparently do have a moral compass so why would they all be ok with that?
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It’s hardly unusual for someone to apply different standards to their enemies than they do to their own people. In fact, that’s pretty much the norm in our history.
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It’s absolutely no different from what the Blood Elves did. Arguably less problematic, since Eyir was already enslaved, by Odyn.
And I’d do the exact same thing, were my species at stake. In a second.
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“I’d enslave another life to save my own hide.”
And people say Nelf Fans are psychotic.
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Do we know that, for sure? The Vrykul of Stormheim have had millenia of cultural shift, until the women aspire to become Val’kyr. It could be societal brainwashing, moreso than outright enslavement.
Not saying that’s good. But it is a different beast from slavery.
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The only one we know for certain was enslaved against their will was helya. With the Hyrja encounter it appeared to be of her own choice to join the val’kyr, not only that it was seen as a great honor.
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There is no nation of people, in fiction or reality, that would not strip rights from a single individual to save their entire people. To pretend otherwise is absurd.
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If Genn hadn’t intervened, the Forsaken would have been eradicated. Or do you honestly believe that Odyn wouldn’t send every Val’kyr and Valarjar he could muster to rescue Eyir and punish those responsible?
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ten characters
Not “to save my own hide”–“to ensure the survival of an entire race.” That’s exactly what pragmatism is all about.
Have you ever read “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas”?
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You’re leaving out the part where she says her own species. Meaning real life humans.
I mean, sure, I agree with her then. It isn’t selfish or “saving her own hide” when that also includes saving everybody else’s hides. Life sometimes presents you with no good way to go, and if one entity must suffer to prevent the eradication of billions of others, then…yeah. I mean, sheesh, we’re doing that anyway IRL, except it’s way more entities and way lower stakes.
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I don’t think he would have bothered. Odynn is pretty much an all talk and bluster, but really lacking in the action outside his own hall department.
I have watched this discussion on whether the Forsaken have a right to exist go back and forth. As a staunch individualist, my stance is quite simple. The individual Forsaken has every right to exist. To live out his or her life, or unlife in this case, as he or she sees fit. However, they do not have the right to force undeath on others. And since enslaving Eyir was a means to that end, it is by definition an unjust act.
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Does justice trump over the survival of a people? Predators after all, kill to survive.
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Again, it has nothing to do with the eradication of anyone, let alone billions. It is not about saving existing Forsaken. It is about creating more Forsaken.
And the Forsaken are not a species. Most Forsaken had the state forced on them. And it was referred to as a curse by a large portion of them, notably including Sylvanas. So, gaining the ability to force a curse on more people (Sylvanas plan for Stormwind) is kind of problematic by itself before you consider the cost.
‘It has been done in real life’ is hardly an argument for something being okay. Humans history is not exactly free of terrible things.
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Actually he directly says that he has stolen their future in retaliation for Sylvanas stealing his (his son). He knew what he was doing.
Which, from a rather direct reading of the CPPCG…
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As I said, each individual undead has the right to survive. They do not have the right to force their condition on others. The only exception would be in the case of someone willingly choosing to become undead while they are still alive. (ex:Thomas Zelling)
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Thing is however the Humans of Stormwind have in the main viewed the Forsaken as vermin to be exterminated. From the point of view of the Forsaken the only way they may survive is to forcibly conver the citizenry of Stormwind to their side of the fence.