alleria agreed to lead her rangers beyond the dark portal into draenor to exact vengeance for quel’thalas and stop the horde once and for all. it wasnt out of loyalty to the alliance
no one has denied that a few individuals are loyal to the alliance. and i include valeera in that statement. they are not integral to the alliance story or have a role in any capacity beyond being decoractive flavor NPCs such as as a portal keeper. does a portal keeper really need permanent player representation?
ofc not. the truth is the high elf fantasy is already available to you to play. you just dont like the colors they wear now. with that being said i will direct you to a quote from the game director himself
there isn’t a clear example of who or what High Elves are as a larger group which remains in Azeroth. There’s a couple…but they’re not out there in the same way
…that said, obviously I understand you would love Alliance elves…you’re an Alliance player, and want to be a fair-skinned, light-haired, blue-eyed elf. Sorry? The Horde is there and waiting for you.
Uh, nothing? The high elves officially left the alliance for a reason. If anything they’d join the horde with their kin.
If anything, voidelves solidified the alliance not getting high elves. Why would the high elves want to join with a race that literally tampered with the magic of the people who wiped out 90% of their race?
It’s condescending, to be sure, but I’ve dismissed nothing. Merrian-Webster should be your next big focus for the evening, friend.
You’re fundamentally misunderstanding me, friend.
I’ve not once implied that the concerns voiced by those against implementing playable HE’s are invalid, nor that the opinions voiced by those for implementing playable HE’s are inherently valid – what I’m saying is that because the framework utilized by each group is so different, if you attempt to discuss the issues together you’re destined for a bunch of circular tripe (which is basically what almost all of the “discussion” has amounted to for more than a decade now).
Those against implementing playable High Elves, as they exist right now in-game, consider it self-evident that High Elves are too similar to Blood Elves – and that owing to this, they shouldn’t/couldn’t be implemented as a playable group.
Those for implementing playable High Elves, consider it self-evident that Blizzard is entirely capable of manipulating every aspect of their own setting (i.e. subjecting the HE’s to a new catastrophe, or inundating them with a new energy) in order to justify making whatever changes are deemed necessary – and that owing to this, they should/could be implemented as a playable group.
Both are true, and neither guarantees that HE’s will or won’t be implemented.
Very opinionated statements you have, which is fine. But as I’ve said before, I disagree. Also by those standards, you have mentioned both of the first two allied races to the Alliance, for they were not integral to the alliance story either. And even if you feel they are just flavored decorations of NPCs, many others also feel that they are not. That also isn’t a standard that is used to say that they cannot eventually become a playable option for the Alliance just because you deem it so. Your High Elf fantasy is the one that is available and playable to you, not everyone elses., So continuing saying it won’t change that stance.
I’ve heard the quote many times, especially from you, over and over and over. Things change and can change. And it’s okay that you don’t want it too, but other do. So with that I’ll direct you to another one of his quotes… “Anything is possible.”
“High Elves” aren’t iconic to the Alliance. Not sure you’re using that word correctly.
High Elves, as they appeared in WC2 and WC3, are highly derivative of the fantasy standards set by Tolkien. The reason we see High Elves start to move away from the Alliance and form their own culture in the second half of WC3 is because WoW’s lore works best when it subverts tropes, not copies them. That’s why we have noble savage orcs, sci-fi aliens in a fantasy setting, and theocratic purple purple elves with amazonian proportions. Those are the true iconic races of WoW.
Blood Elves are iconic because they take a Tolkienesque aesthetic, mix it with some orthodox imagery, and align them with a faction that doesn’t seem to mesh at first until you start to learn about them. Blood Elves are a proper iconic race for WoW.
This is subjective. If you don’t like what High Elves are, that’s cool, you have BLood Elves waiting for you on the Horde. I personally really like almost all parts of the Warcraft lore, even the Blood Elves joining with the Horde.
We’ve had High Elves on the Alliance forever, and we most likely always will. So, in a sense, it’s not that crazy to claim “High Elves are an iconic Alliance race”. It’s not even a matter of adding them, it’s a matter of making them playable.
High Elves were around in the Alliance before Blood Elves were playable, so it’s not really “theft”, and they’re nothing alike. If you can’t look past their appearance, that’s your own fault.
It’s subjective to say that WoW’s races work off the blueprint presented to the fantasy canon by Tolkien? I don’t think that’s subjective at all; virtually every race in WoW today engages with a presumption of standardized fantasy tropes.
In what way are the high elves, as they have been traditionally depicted, any different from the Tolkien-esque wood elves? The largest deviation is probably the high elves in the Kirin Tor, and the trope of “elf mage” is not all that distinct for WoW.
I know high elves predate blood elves. They’re not theft from the Horde, they’re theft from established fantasy tropes. Virtually every other race has a significant deviation that makes it stand out in the World of Warcraft as a distinct race.
Green orcs are iconically warcraft.
Night Elves are iconically warcraft.
Draenei are iconically warcraft.
Tauren are iconically warcraft.
But if you say the name “high elf” to a passerby are they really going to immediately associate that name with World of Warcraft? No way, because the ones in Warcraft are both underdeveloped and painfully derivative.
Fair-skinned.
Lives in forests.
Natural rangers.
Incredibly prideful.
Nearly-immortal.
Prone to relationships with humans.
Golden-haired.
Blue-eyed.
Elvish language linked to magical spellcasting.
It’s all textbook Tolkien. And that’s fine, considering the warcraft series started off as a semi-parody of Tolkien, but then you can’t claim high elves are an iconic part of the Alliance; they’re just a borrowed property. High elves didn’t get interesting until after the Scourge invasion, when the vast majority became the blood elves. The ones that exist today are just remnants of a civilization that doesn’t exist any more.
Let me know when you spend time in one of the megathreads, until then, this means nothing.
Blah blah blah, by the way, lots of people take me seriously as they see it the exact same way as i do. Antis don’t because they don’t want them. I am ok with the minority that doesn’t want them, you are entitled to your opinion.
I already have several Blood Elves, don’t like how evil and self rigtheous they have become. Don’t like that they participated in the genocide in Theramore or their “leadership”. No amount of you saying Blood Elves are there for me or ION saying will change the fact that Blood Elves are a half shade lighter than UD, hell they spent ALL of TBC Siphoning the light off a trapped Naru. Alliance High Elves didn’t do that.
I want to play Alliance High Elves and that won’t change and nothing that you say will change that. So you can blow hard all you want but it still won’t change my opinion or what i want to play.
I was being generous, they don’t ever hit the mark when balancing content. I could go on for days on how uneven the content has been over the history of the game.
You have no idea what they are going to do or not.
Ok.
Very few will care, once it is done, it is done and they will learn to live with it…or not.
It’s not an assumption, but you go with that as i tire of you being unable to live with the reality that the players of WC3 came over to WoW in large numbers, if you want to be obstinate and say that didn’t happen. Be my guest.
So you say. You are entitled to your opinion, i am ok with it because i have seen people use this over and over as an argument regardless of whether you like it or not. Nothing i say is a valid argument to you because you don’t like the idea in the first place. I am fine with that as i am with all of the other obstinate Antis who say that kind of thing.
Whatever you have to tell yourself to make it not matter, i am sure this is not an argument either.
THEY DON’T FILL THE FANTASY. Unless your fantasy was arcane addicted Elves who would degenerate over time unless they filled themselves with Arcane energy. Elves that decided holding a Naru hostage for power was a good thing. NO THEY DON’T FILL THE FANTASY OF THE ALLIANCE HIGH ELF AT ALL.
I have said many times he is not the only one…you just seem stuck on me saying that when that hasn’t happened. What i said was he is in charge and he gets the hate because he is the one saying it. I am sure other devs go along with this as i have stated now multiple times.
high elves were added in 2007. this is the expressed opinion of the development team
you have as much right to play an alliance high elf as the horde does a human. i think if you want to play a human you should roll a human on the alliance. if you want to be a high elf, THAT IS A BLOOD ELF and that fantasy is exclusive to the horde. because thats what blood elves are horde high elves. they fulfill the fantasy of being a light skinned and majestic elf in World of Warcraft, something that has become an intrinsic part of the horde identity. something that has been established as status quo for well over 12 years now. because they keep adding 1 as a portal keeper each expansion to reflect the lore that a few do exist in the alliance is irrelevant. the high elves as a people left the alliance
void elves ARE the answer to the request for a thalassian model on the alliance if you cant stomach the ‘icky’ horde. that it isnt the one a few people wanted is just tough
Edit: here is a SS of me standing next to one of the four alliance high elves added for BFA. thats right you can count them all on 1 hand minus a pinky. this ‘iconic’ alliance race, only 4 showed up for the war. they are there to serve as nothing but flavor NPCs to add depth and texture to the world, a nod to the past if you will, and everybody knows it
They’re not the answer to “Wanting to play the High Elf faction that’s been with the Alliance since Vanilla” though. The fantasy of the Alliance High Elf.
That’s what the High Elf fantasy is. Its not “I would like to use the BElf model”. Its “Hi, I worked with the Silver Covenant or one of those few other HElf organisations. I abandoned my people, my nation, as I thought my alliances with other groups held more weight”
The orcs in Dungeons and Dragons have been depicted as being variably brown-skinned and green-skinned, and similarly tusked, since the release of the Monster Manual in 1977.
If you aren’t someone familiar with the setting, Night Elves are largely indistinguishable from various iterations of Dark Elves that predate Warcraft by 15-25 years (i.e. DnD’s Dark Elves, Forgotten Realm’s Moon Elves, etc.).
The Draenei are clearly derivative of historical conceptions of Biblical demons – again, to someone unfamiliar with the setting, they’d see a picture of a Draenei and think someone on DeviantArt drew an interesting demon with shiny armor.
Tauren are Minotaurs. They’ve been used in fantasy and fiction since ancient Greece.
I don’t really take any issue with you defining the High Elves, visually, as being almost entirely derivative of the Tolkien’s imagining – but the things you’ve cited as being “iconically Warcraft”, with the implication being that these things are entirely unique onto the Warcraft setting, don’t really stand up to even a small bit of scrutiny.
There is a huge difference between iterating on a pre-existing concept and copying it wholesale. The tauren, as an example, are not just minotaur. They are a composite that blends aspects of minotaur physiology with native american aesthetics. Are you telling me that I will find depictions of ancient greek minotaur wearing feathered head-dresses?
WoW does something to each of the fantasy concepts that gives it a unique identity in their world. DnD orcs are so primitive and bestial that they aren’t even selectable as a race in most editions of the game; only half-orcs are.
There is little to no discernible difference between high elves in WoW and high elves in other fantasy genres. Everything that made them distinct in WoW happened after the Scourge invasion and after they became blood elves. This is not a problem that any other playable race in the game has. None of them.
An icon is, by definition, something you must experience visually. When you say “iconically Warcraft”, you’re then implying that the visage of [Orcs/NE’s/Draenei/Tauren] is unique onto Warcraft. I simply disagree, for the reasons mentioned.
(I will concede to you, however, that their use of historical First Nations motifs does actually qualify the Tauren as being “iconically Warcraft”.)
Yes, and none of that has anything to do with the group(s) visual appearance – which is all that can be discussed, if we’re talking about things that are “iconically Warcraft”.
There are plenty of distinctions, narratively, but you’re correct in suggesting that High Elves aren’t “iconically Warcraft” – but, then again, neither are most of the races you posited above. What point are you making, other than that High Elves aren’t “iconically Warcraft”?
Was any of us unaware that Blizzard “borrows” basically everything they’ve ever written from history, mythology, or better writers than they can afford?
