Yes I work in the private sector so to speak. However I think that people still want to make valuable use of their time.
When it’s nice outside I don’t bring in apples I brought from the store one by one from my car to spend a bit more time in the sun. I put them in a bag bring them in all at once then sit on the porch with a beer.
Edit: Yes with respect to guild runs if there are 10 people in the guild running they with naturally set people up in the groups to benefit their members in the most efficient way, reserving is this same function for the pug market.
I’m sure they do. And they should play at the pace which suits them. All I am implying is, that faster isn’t always a criteria. When I say I have time, it is because I am no hurry reaching end-game. If you wanna exhaust the content in a year, that’s your choice. I will just take the liberty of doing it in 1½ instead. Not going to tell how others should play, just that not all have the same approach to the game.
The ironic thing is that that very mindset lead us to retail. “I have limited time so I want to make sure I get what I want faster”. And that’s why I think it’s a pathetic mindset to have.
In the beginning, reserves didn’t happen on any of the servers that I was on. Same with everyone else I knew. There was however, some forms of “social engineering” - but much later. Early on, you were just happy just to get 15 people for UBRS, let alone being picky about what class. If you didn’t get what you wanted, you ran the instance again. You sucked it up.
But hey, ultimately I won’t join a group with reserves. The group maker can do what he/she wants.
As long as the reserve is stated before hand I have no issue and will honor the request.
But if my BIS Blue BOE drops and the hunter rolls need for his alt all agreements are null and void. The demand for respect must intersect the giving of respect.
I can’t really relate reserve runs to retail. It’s not about have stuff easier, it’s about doing it more effectively. Can you get high warlord as a solo player? Sure possibly if you play 24 hours a day. Can you do it as a premade? Sure possibly in 6 hours a day. Doesn’t mean that premade AB groups are going to lead to retail.
My point being, it’s how it all started. This whole obsession with maximizing time came later on as the game became more and more streamlined.
Now, whether Blizzard was pushed in that direction because they “got with the times” or whether or not they initiated it it, no one knows.
But I will say this. In my opinion, had Blizzard created the authentic Vanilla experience, it would have turned off a lot of people - including the private server players due to time taken. Not because of difficulty. But because of time.
Edit … whoah … what’s with this pencil icon that won’t go away …save edit.
Classic was different back then, on my server the only time and I mean only time, I ever saw reserve runs is when 80% of the group was friends or guild members and they straight up told you what they wanted. It was an agreement to join the group.
In dungeons that were not reserved we all had this respect. If you had two rogues in the group who wanted the cloak off of Baron Rivendare, most times when joining they would discuss the matter.
Example 1:
Rogue 1 - “Hi, I need the cloak off Baron do you as well?”
Rogue 2 - “Yes, but we can both roll on it!”
Example 2:
Rogue 1: “Hi, do you need the cloak off Baron?”
Rogue 2 - “Yes, but you can have it if I can have Bonescrapper instead. Does that work for you?”
What a different world we lived in. Also those people who would pug the entire group with the “Reserved X” were often just people no one ever played with for multiple reasons. If someone is not carrying or in a majority friends/guild group reserving will not be a thing imo. This is will not be a private server, you will have a reputation to uphold again.
It depends on what you are doing. If you are talking about random pugs, then yes- he who makes the group makes the rules. Be sure to know what the rules are before joining.
If you are talking about raids, it’s mostly gonna be DKP (Dragon killing points), EPGP, Loot council, and extremely rarely a /roll game.
My guild with all of my buddies already have some rules in place before it even launches. Our big hitter that everyone agreed to is that our first thunderfury will, without exception, be going to the main tank. As the off tank, I don’t care. The weapon will best serve our purpose (clearing content) as a collective if the weapon goes to the main tank.
Preach did an excellent video on the retail mindset of “MUH GEARS”. In well organized groups of friends who want to clear content, most don’t care that a piece that is an upgrade went to someone else as long as that piece increases the groups success in clearing content.
Hrm this is true. If the majority of the people don’t think highly of reserves and those who do it get ripped on publicly, then you have a point - it’s not going to happen.
If I do see it on trade chat or whatever, I will laugh at them regardless.
I’m not tanking BRD emperor runs potentially over one hundred times for some rogue to win Ironfoe on his third time through for HoJ when IF drops for the first time. You can bet your butt I’m going to “Ironfoe reserved, ML on final pull” and make sure any potential group members specifically agree to that in /w so they can’t play dumb and act taken aback when I announce “Okay guys, ML is going up” before the emp pull. Yeah there are some instances where it can seem outrageous, I think mainly during leveling dungeons where gear isn’t preraid BiS and will get outdated quickly, but I’ve seen more reasonable reserves than unreasonable. Not everyone does this, but I only reserve when there’s one item left that I need from an instance that is also hard to get, as it means other group members won’t have need-roll competition from me for the non-reserved item in question.
When I FIRST started playing reserves seemed a little silly but now I’m thinking the only people who have a problem with it are the ones who want to get carried by the grinder who both has put prior time into learning and streamlining the dungeon as well as forming the group, and then try and nab the item that person has been trying so hard to get without putting in any time themselves beyond tagging along for a single run.
Uhmm, wouldn’t it be the other way around? I mean, the person reserving an item, is clearly in need of someone to get there in the first place no? And why couldn’t other people have knowledge of the place? If anything, reserving items like you described it, just make you sound egotistical. A better question though, why would one pug a full run through BRD? Clearly, guildies would be the better choice. Which in turn also would be much easier to divide loot up as you see fit.
Etiquette is to tell people before your group is complete and when it is.
You cannot just make a group and say ok these are reserve, because that goes against etiquette of respecting other people.
I got into one group before that did something like that and all of a sudden something was reserve so I left the instance.
Reserving loot is very selfish but, if people accept it good for you.
It was a thing in vanilla. I remember quite clearly certain items from dungeons would be reserved, and they’d swap it to Master Looter before the boss they wanted items from.
In raids, it’s going to mostly be Master Looter anyway, so if a group of friends forming a raid or a guild or whatever decides that the Bindings off Garr are reserved, that’s that.
O definitely things will always be reserved, I only added that those groups are almost always formed with an upper hand in group formation though. Super geared tank coming to help get his friend/guildie gear. A majority friend group or guild group.
People should stay far away from those singular players just forming groups with 'I want this you cant have it" type of reserves. If a guild is missing like 2-3 people and hard reserves specific things that would fall into that category.
I know you weren’t talking to me but this topic is important and you are a reasonable person to discuss things with.
True. I’ve seen a lot of that, as well. A rogue in greens and blues starting a MC group to reserve bindings for themselves. Haha.
Usually those groups don’t go very far, and I actually don’t care what they reserve so long as it’s not something I want. You can rightfully expect any class that wants whatever is reserved to avoid groups like that.
Bindings reserved? Good luck inviting a tank who doesn’t already have TF.
Reins reserved? Good luck inviting anyone with gear.
Thankfully that means those groups don’t get very far. Unfortunately, that probably means they’ll be spamming Trade for hours trying to fill a group. Hmm…
I disagree because both the person reserving and the rest of the party get something beneficial out of it. One, a chance at an item, the others a chance at the rest of the items since there won’t be need rolls going from the reserver unless they do(!), which at that point since they’re rolling need on “everything” (exaggeration but you get what I mean) no one will join their group because they have no chance at anything as opposed to a chance at anything BUT one item.
The way I see it, people who disparage someone reserving a SINGLE very low drop chance item in a run that’s dropping multiple items for multiple party members that the leader is either passing or greeding on, is just insanely selfish.
“Hey I want this one item that statistically is almost certainly not even going to drop after our group effort, but you guys can have everything else!”
“Wow, that’s pretty selfish of you.”
???
Ironfoe viability is another topic and it probably will not be nearly as good so we’ll see if I’ll actually have to bang my head against that wall in the first place when Classic launches.
Everyone needs a party to clear any instance (besides exceptions like hunter Mara etc.) so that’s not an argument as it cancels out in terms of “who needs who”. Tanks are much harder to find than DPS however, so your tentative assertion leans more towards ‘wrong’ now, since DPS need tanks more than vice-versa. Don’t pretend this isn’t the case, when I played DPS (my first class to 60) the worst part of my entire experience was sitting for hours in capitals trying to get groups together by riding the line as best I could between ‘recruiting’ and ‘spamming’. (As an aside, The worst was it taking FOUR HOURS on my DPS to get a second tank for an UBRS run together, with no reserves by the way, when there was I think 8 or 10 thousand players online. (Not vanilla, if you couldn’t tell…) Not fun gameplay at all.)
It is not being egotistical to reserve an item you’re farming, it’s just respecting yourself and the time/effort you put in. What is egotistical is expecting to not only get very rare, highly sought after loot over another individual who has been working at it longer and harder than you, but in addition deprive that individual of the specific item in the process. (When it’s the only item they need, to boot. They’re not getting anything else out of the run.) To basically handicap others efforts so you can play at winning the lottery for yourself. Yeah it’s great for you but not at all for the other person. and YOU are being selfish not them. Plus, A random PUG member gets IF, you have no idea if they’ll put it to good use or not, if they’ll just outright stop playing the next day and leave the soulbound item to rot on their inactive character. If you’re farming for it, especially low drop chance, end-boss items like IF that require large time investments, you are dedicated enough to know that ‘you’ yourself will be putting it to good use and if not, you earned it through time spent more than others. Because that is what vanilla is all about, the person who puts in more time will do better than the one who puts in less.
Also in regards to your last question, ‘emp run’ is different than a ‘full clear’ or ‘quest run’. The former uses lava jumping to skip to the Lyceum, which is shortly before Emperor. The latter is a full clear, which I’ve done with PUGS and enjoyed but is not an option if you are farming IF and want to minimize the damage to your sanity. Looking forward to doing both again, but yes guild runs are always better than PUG runs.
Never once heard someone reserve something on my server in actual vanilla. I would not join a group where someone was reserving something. You dont want competition then say, “looking for non-warrior dps” or “looking for cloth dps” or whatever.
I mean you make very valid points I can not deny that however there are solutions to those problems in the form of group format and the like. What I should of said would of been along the lines of,
“Peoples who expect to reserve a very high sought after item multiple classes use and is the sole reason most people would even do that content is a form of low life attitude, if the person is very up front in the matter at hand stating they only wish for this one item very specifically and is willing to acknowledge or even agree to not rolling on other items then there should be no problem. However there are people who will reserve to many things, I suppose this would not pertain to single reserves. If you wish to make an UBRS group and reserve Dal’ Rends with no one else in the group yet you best have that door key. There is always a solution to these dilemmas and outliers. There are even people who start groups claiming they have almost everything reserved, unless it is a group of 4 which only needs a dps then that is different to some degree. There are a lot of things to consider however, those wishing to benefit off the majority work of others will always be seen as a low life attitude. Like the one person who starts reserve groups with ridiculous demands when they are a fresh level 60 with little contribution to the group.”