I’m sorry, what? Reserving loot doesn’t guarantee it to drop. It only makes it so IF it does, the one who reserved it SHOULD get it.
Remember, drops are rng based.
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I understand where you’re coming from here although in terms of IF, there are multiple good drops and Pre-raid BiS items from Emp so it’s not that extreme here. I know Rend also drops several good items from his loot table so that a single reserved item does not remove incentive for other players.
Agreed.
I do not reserve multiple items at once and I also do not join groups that reserve multiple items unless there are several other items I need in addition to the reserved items, or if the reserved items are of no interest to me, as in that case it is still worth my while to group up and do the run.
Agreed and one of my goals in Classic is getting all keys/attunements to increase my worth to the groups I will be in. I remember a warrior who charged our group 10 or 20g for an UBRS door open once and we happily paid because we had no other choice and 1 or 2g from each member isn’t much at level 60. If it was 100 or 200g, that’d be another story!
I assume this only really takes off if there is something else of interest for PUG players? Like reserving all the pre-raid BiS in LBRS but allowing the 1-2 PUG players to roll on the gems for the UBRS key?
Agreed, although again it’s mutually beneficial so while they are benefiting off others work, those ‘others’ are ALSO benefiting from the groups work assuming we are following my example of reserving where other party members also have gear opportunities in the run.
Yeah those are just people being stupid and they almost certainly won’t get anywhere until they realize their own worth and tone down their demands. If you have nothing special to offer, back off. But if you do, press your advantage!
No need to apologize for a Wall Of Text, I started it first in the discussion and enjoy thorough responses much more than lame “witty” one-liners that pervade internet forums these days.
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And others can’t have trying to work towards that loot just as hard? Don’t know if it is by intention, but that does come off as “I’m more important than those I group up with” Tell me again, why I would want to help you with that attitude?
How is that being selfish? Everybody pulls the same weight during a run (hopefully) Reserving an item, just mean you want people to serve your purpose.
And how do I know, as a pug-member, you won’t do the same? Again, you come off as self-rightious and aloof with not a lot of faith in those you should supposedly trust to get you through this. That has always been the risk running pugs with people you don’t know.
Again, how would you know, others haven’t had the same time-investment? Of course, such people would never join a reserved run anyways. Might be a factor of you having trouble finding runs, if pugging it.
That’s really besides the point, regarding reserved items. And your time, is not more worth than mine, and vice versa. It is called mutual respect. What time we have invested in the game, has nothing to do with a run. The time in the run is what matters. I’ll play my best not to waste others time in that run, and I expect others to do the same. But I won’t ask people in a pug, so, what’s your /played so far, and then somehow derive because I have x amount more hours than the others, I am somehow entitled to more because of that.
Final thing. Wanna reserve loot? Run it with guildies, who are in it with and for you, and vice versa. The private server crowds will likely be spread out on different servers. Don’t expect former vanilla players who haven’t played private servers to play merc’s for your benefit. I fully expect some form of minor culture clashes in things like that.
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Reserving gear is lazy. I might have seen it a small handful of times late vanilla but they were quickly laughed at. It wasnt common on any server myself or my friends were a part of.
If you lose the drop, run it again. And people wonder why in retail everthing is just given to them. Its how it all starts.
The core audience from vanilla to classic has obviously changed. But dang some of you kids are lazy and entitled.
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Just announce it up front, especially if you’re making the group. Announce it “I’m putting it on Master Loot when we get to x boss because I want x piece of gear. If you also want this piece of gear, you should drop group.”
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Communication and clarity are key. If the group agrees to a reserve up front, then so be it. If not, they are free to make their own group.
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If they were working towards the loot just as hard they wouldn’t be in my reserved run, they’d organize their own! Also as I explained in a previous post, if you are a tank putting a group together especially if you know your stuff, then yes you are more important than DPS in the group and are putting in more work. First, supply and demand. Second, DPS is braindead in dungeons, besides things like Mage poly which is just above that as it requires pressing an additional button on another target before going back to spamming. Tanking IS more difficult and requires more skill.
You would want to help/join the group because there are other items that drop that you can use, that I won’t be rolling need on, meaning there is less competition for you. (Also, the group has a tank, which means it’s well on it’s way to being underway, as opposed to spending hours searching for a tank so you can actually start playing the game.) If there aren’t, then the group just isn’t for you as you won’t gain anything from the run, and you find another group or make your own, as I’ve said before.
No, people do not pull the same weight in a run. You can clear without a 3rd DPS (and I bet even a 2nd if you are geared, though I haven’t tried), you can’t clear without a tank or a healer. The person forming the group is putting more effort into the group formation than the one who whispers ‘inv’. Combine a tank with the party leader and you have an undeniable increase in contribution to the effort of a successful run. Try holding a 5 or 10-man endgame dungeon hostage as DPS and threaten to leave. You’ll get kicked and replaced in under a minute. Do the same as Tank and see how different the response is.
Because if you’ve been paying attention you’ll have noticed me putting reserved groups together again and again in general, trade, etc. the past few days as I farm for the item.
See above.
Simply not true. It’s why geared warriors can be seen either charging for runs or reserving marketable items. They contribute more than the rest of the players they’re grouping with and so they take a larger cut of the group’s profits. Their time IS worth more than others. But that’s geared warriors, what about a pre-raid BiS warrior farming IF? Well, they put in the work of tanking which is arduous and make-or-break for a run, as well as assembling the group which takes time and constant interaction with potential members. They are putting in more effort than the rest of the group. They play a more valuable role than the rest of the group. Their time is worth more than others. You can be mad or sad about that but that’s the way it is in-game and in the real world. To deny that is to disregard and disrespect others work because you want the same cut as them when you didn’t earn the same cut as them. Everybody is not ‘equal’, neither in the game nor in real life, some are better and more valuable than others and to believe otherwise is to give in to infantile delusion. It has never been this way, even under horrific systems like Communism IRL, and if it ever becomes like this, it won’t be until the far future long after you and I have both died.
It is not mutual respect to deny others are more valuable than you, that is disrespect. Good luck finding a guild to raid with when you demand the best drops from a raid after one run compared to members who have been farming it for months because hey, everything else besides the run itself doesn’t matter. Not going to happen and you might get guild kicked for your ridiculous attitude.
I’ve never advocated doing that because that doesn’t tell you anything and there are numerous better ways to determine weight of contribution if you want to split hairs.
Running with guild mates is fine until they have all the items they want. Then there is nothing in it for them and they can be doing other things to help the raid team. By taking on PUGs, you simultaneously free up your guild members to work on others things, and give PUGs a chance at good items for them that would have been vendor fuel or outright discarded otherwise. “For my benefit” implies they are not also benefiting alongside me which, if that’s what you are implying, is a lie.
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Reserving items publicly is dumb.
Simply advertise as normal and ignore the people you know will want the gear you do. Until that takes to long and you end up inviting one guy who needs your loot to save time, cause whatever it’s 50/50. Then lose the roll to this guy, who leaves after the boss screwing you and your group , all for the sake of saving time so then you gotta run it again which is even more time and repeat till you a.) give up and use the green you have cause MC is a joke or B.) till you get your item.
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I am not going to quote your post bit for bit this time. You are wrong on so many levels, I don’t even know where to begin. The assumptions you make is out of this world.
If you are any indication on how the private server crowd is viewing the game and other players as a whole, I sincerely hope to steer clear of them.
My exp - in actual vanilla rarely saw anyone reserve an item. Reserves runs at last on our server were where the bottom of the barrel chars went - the ones with bad ninja reps and such. But I’ll give a * with that since I was mainly a tank and was almost always doing guild runs from the second I logged in - made it hard to work on other chars but even those when I did have the time would mostly do guild runs.
In pservs I was a dps and saw a massive amount of reserve runs when I was pugging, and generally avoided those runs. Guild runs even 5 mans, if we are farming something for a guild member and we needed an extra peep, we would state that in the world: “guild run scholo Robe of void tailoring pattern reserved, LF1M dps prefer rogue/hunter” that kind of thing. If I was pugging I would never join a reserve run - unless I could care less about what was reserved - nor would I ever make a reserve group.
The question I think is - will be pserv attitude transfer to vanilla or will reserve runs be mostly taboo. I hope the later. But I plan on mostly doing guild runs so I don’t expect this to matter to those that make your guild as central to your activities online.
I’ll sometimes join reserve runs if I don’t care at all about the reserved item(s) or if I need the dungeon for a quest or something. I dislike them in principle so I don’t form them myself.
I’d rather make 4 friends in-game and do runs together until we all get what we need. If more than one person needs the item and it’s really rare, then they can roll for it or discuss it together.
Not sure if they had the need/greed thing in Classic, but I remember in BC that in a dungeon group the basic rule of thumb seemed to be Need if you need or can really use it and greed if you don’t. You can ask at the beginning if you can have something specific and the if the other four agree, they would Pass on it. And Woe to He/She that Needs on something they shouldn’t. Cause within 48 hours or less, the entire server will know about it.
I will be honest, I thought the ‘Reserve’ you were going to talk about was how to reserve those mining pts/herbs. If a person if fighting off mobs while standing on one of those, please don’t go an mine/pick the item they are fighting so hard for. We hunters and those locks have it easy when compared to you non-pet lesser classes since we can have a pet keep the mobs busy while we get the materials.
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Back when I played original, I never personally saw anyone reserving items.
I never reserved items when I ran groups.
But yea, it’s easy enough, if a group says they’re reserving an item you need, find a new group.
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If I’m tanking BRD emp lava runs for the 50th time, I’m reserving the Ironfoe. Everything else I’ll pass on, but I’m not letting some random rogue get the mace I’ve put more time into.
That’s realistically the only thing I’ve ever reserved or ever will reserve.
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I really don’t like groups that have “reserved” items so I don’t tend to join them. I know that the group leader spent the time to make it but it doesn’t IMO justify a rare dropped item. Everyone works equally hard to complete the dungeon/raid.
The best option is to avoid groups that have reservations for items you want or start your own reservation groups.
UBRS and BRD are going to have a ton of reservation groups. Dire Maul shouldn’t since most of the BiS items from there can either be solo’d or are limited to one class so there isn’t huge competition.
Expect to see recipes on reserve as well. During vanilla I was the first person on my faction to have the recipe for Flask of the Supreme Power and Flask of Titans; i was the only alchemist in the group and so people just gave it to me. This time around people know how much those recipes are worth so expect some party leaders to put them on res just to sell in trade/AH.
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I have been thinking about this as well from the point of view of a tank lately.
Starting my own groups, regular loot rules.
If I get a pst from someone asking me to tank for their group, I might say “Sure, but I get two Crusader Orbs” or something along those lines. I also insist on party leader because that is the only way you can mark.
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Live strat has absolutely no loot for tanks. It was standard practice to let the first orb go to the tank, with the rest being round robin.
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Don’t like the rules? Don’t join it? It’s that simple.
Some people DO make incredibly greedy or ridiculous reservation rules. If you don’t wanna deal with it, don’t. Just let the man march.
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Orb’s will go to tanks, ironfoe’s and HoJ’s will be reserved and so will plenty of crap out of scholo. Deal with it boyo’s because that’s the way it’s gonna be.
You’ll whine a lot in chat about it when you see group’s doing it, complain on the forum’s and I’m sure you’ll moan endlessly to your guildy’s about how the way you guy’s do is the real way it was done in vanilla but most of the community will be doing it just like most of the community does on p servers.
Don’t like it? Start the group. End of story but I bet you’ll be doing the same thing because P.S. ignoring the five warrior’s sending you tell’s is doing the same thing as saying HoJ reserved.
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