None of this changes the fact that artifacts from the Maw did make it onto a mortal plane and that was a problem that the Archon should not have swept under the rug and denied. They were still unable to face the truth because of their structure.
They are still not going to stop ferrying people into the soul funnel going into the Maw right now, because the Arbiter being broken isn’t something their system can adapt to. They are empowering the villain because they have no capacity to weigh consequences of their actions. You don’t need souls for this, they could make their robots do it instead because that would only ever be able to initiate its programming, and never even notice extraneous information.
None of these problems should be hung up on their past memories or prejudice. It’s just being self-destructively focused on the system over the goal… like trying to fill a basin with water because you were told to, and not caring that it’s got a hole in it and is emptying onto the floor.
Exactly, discipline is needed. The kyrian aren’t abusing them, they’re protecting them from something awful. But some people are being a lil hard-headed a refuse to see the other side of the situation.
Devos’ problem with her conclusion is that the response isn’t proportional. It would be much more reasonable for her to bring the news to the Archon and ask the Maldraxxi to look into it since its their job to do so.
Devos’ reaction instead was that everything was wrong and needed to be torn down. And she was making a grand spectacle of it in front of everyone. Of course the Archon had to come down on her.
If you had a project you were working on that needed feedback, it’d be appropriate to give specific feedback, not tell you that you shouldn’t have even bothered and were foolish to do so.
She did bring it to the Archon though, and was told it was impossible, so stop thinking. This is what actually caused her to doubt spiral. If the Archon had considered the possibility and alerted the Maldraxxi, maybe we wouldn’t have to intervene now. The problem is it was a black and white solution to something that needed nuance. Not being able to consider a problem, is a problem in and of itself.
This is why the Maldraxxi said Bastion was complacent in a broken system, because they are. It’s all they can be. They can’t stop doing what they do, no matter the consequences. It is going to be addressed though, since the Archon has finally acknowledged after we killed Devos that she might have had a bit of a point.
Devos’s reaction was bad, but that’s because Bastion can’t deal with any deviation, so they keep responding with extremes. If I told my boss the store was on fire because it was and we needed to get out, and they told me “That’s impossible, go back to work.” My boss wouldn’t be making a reasonable request.
Whose to say the Archon was going to ignore it? to be honest she wasn’t really given a chance to act on it before Devos doubted her and wrongfully took things into her own hands. and look at the result: civil war, death, collapse.
The Archon has been the leader of the Kyrian for a pretty long time, she fully knows what can happen if they panic. I could fully understand how she told Devos to let it go in order to avoid her people panicking and acting recklessly, similar to how governments withhold information from the public before they devise a way to successfully respond and neutralize the threatening situation. Devos was acting crazy and jumping the gun, and you could already see the negative effect it was having on the other Kyrians in the cinematic.
This I agree with, I don’t understand why they would continue to bring souls to oribos while knowing what would happen to them. However, they can’t question themselves or lose sight of who they are either, since doing so would mean the complete collapse of their society. I don’t agree with bringing souls back only to go to the maw, but I admire their ability to trust in their leader long enough for her and her siblings to figure out a way to fix it.
Those problems aren’t directly related to their memories, but they are a result of what happens to kyrians when they keep them. The only reason it’s been this easy to cause such chaos in the ranks of the kyrian is because of the doubt that’s been running rampant like a virus in their society. So their doubt may not be directly responsible for what’s happening in oribos and the rest of the shadowlands, but it’s been inflaming the situation considerably.
If you were the Archon, would you want Devos dropping this at your feet in such a way? Existence of a Maw artifact in the mortal plane? Sure. Going on a tirade about how everything is boogered and needs to be thrown aside?
Devos’ reaction to a problem was to jump straight to the most extreme solution.
A manager of a pizza joint probs wouldn’t let one of their employees go on a rant about how everyone should quit and pizza is bad so why make it anyway.
The Archon knows what Maldraxxus’ role is and is likely aware that there are threats facing the Shadowlands. She’s not ignorant to the invasion of the Void that we see the retelling of. If Devos hadn’t gone half-cocked screaming about flaws in the Path she might have seemed more reasonable in her concerns, but she presented herself poorly.
If the Archon swept it under the rug, Devos’ manner of presenting that information didn’t encourage anyone to take it seriously.
Preemptively murdering everyone who MIGHT turn on you is not something moral, well adjusted societies do.
No the water is the insane process that requires you to abandon your identity and become a cog in a machine, and the discipline is the hand holding them down till they either drown or basically figure out how to breath under water.
That’s exactly what’s happening, I know because I was the one they hired to hold them down.
She said as much in the cinematic. She said it was impossible and just brushed it off, then Devos started flipping out. The weird part is, it’s not like souls lose their memories right away, and they are stored… so it’s not like processing vital information or threats to pass on to Maldraxxus should be out of the ordinary.
The other Kyrian seemed more upset about the scene that unfolded, but if the Archon had just said something like “Thank you for bringing this to my attention, I will look into it.” Devos probably wouldn’t have suffered her murderous breakdown, or ascended Uther too early. Being spurned by her leader seems to be what actually sowed the seed of Doubt. Uther having memories as a baby aspirant isn’t even unusual. It’s a long, slow process and he’s only been dead for not all that long.
Devos did lose sight of her good point in all her angst, but her initial warning was sound, and it seems like they are laying the groundwork for “Kyrian are wrong about somethings.” We are even told in one quest we will have to learn to forgive and work with someone we currently view as an enemy, so pretty sure that’s Uther or Lysonia.
Except they aren’t trying to murder anyone. They’re literally trying to shock them out of a rut they’ve fallen so deep into that physical intervention is the only way to reach them.
There’s literally no point in trying make you understand a different point of view when you’re already set on seeing things through a singular lens. I understand that it’s brutal and unfortunate, but there’s literally no other way. Physical force is a last resort that’s used after the counsel and teachings of the ascended no longer help. It’s either discipline or complete descension into blind, insane rage.
But you’re waaaay too sure of yourself to even consider any other points of view.
As they say, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. If nothing else, it’s a lesson in thoughtfully and carefully presenting your case, because even if you’re right, no one will listen to you if you sound like a radical.
I went for it on one character. Sadly the more I go, the more I hope that Kleia and Pelagos eventually becomes the leaders of that zone, and institutes major reforms with Uther and other Kyrian who realize things are kind of borked.
Barring that, I feel like the backstory I came up with for my Hunter is making sense. She is a Troll, but their only reason for going there was to recover the souls that were sent there by the Arbiter, liberate and get them out of Bastion, and to their proper place on the Otha Side.
Additionally, taking a portion of the Archon’s power might set up some inroads for Bwonsamdi to do what he’s doing in Ardenweald and manifest similarly in Bastion. I mean, sure I could of gone Ardenweald, but my Monk went there and I wanted to do each Covenant at least once.
Seriously hope Blizzard makes Nya’lotha / Nazjatar up to us by having a Bwonsamdi themed Covenant in 9.1 or 9.2. As it stands, Ardenweald cannot be properly considered a “Troll” after life. Cameos and a couple token soul-shapes don’t change that it’s mostly a Night Elf thing and I’m sick of their monopoly on nature themed stuff.
