What Reparation's should the Alliance get?

That is what I say, you basically want to deny every consequence that you don’t like. But a “punishment” that you are ok with is hardly a punishment at all.

And there is a huge difference if one player demands payback genocide, OR a civilized solution that would be held in modern worlds like a trial.
That is the issue there are two solutions completely antithetical but none of them are good for you because if would be consequences.

And you fail to accept that for alliance players and ESPECIALLY NE players having no consequences is even worse than what has allready happened.
That is what I hate about most horde players, they want to be the ones getting to punch someone but not recieving said punches.

This is one of the big issues I have. You have had the “fun” but once it is the other ones turn, you want to change the rules or weaponize morality against it like “you won’t be better, see bad alliance wants genocide !!111”

Personally, you know my stance, I am against the alliance doing a genocide on theirbehalf, especially as NEs, it doesn’t suite them. But we have built in mechaniques into our races core whoa re perfect for this situations: Wardens.
We have a whole group of special agents and inquisitors who hunt down criminals in a brutal and unyielding unmercyfull way. This is what NEs are about and it should be used against the horde and tehy shoudl at least feel the same amount of conseuqences as NEs have felt with WoT. Not necessarily genocide but euqaually crippeling, dramtic and severe.

That are my demands and Horde players who are denying it are hypocritical and disgusting for me.

Like I’ve said above. I want equally severe, dramatic and crippeling and humiliating consequences for the Horde faction. BUT that doesn’t mean genocide or torture.
Having Wardens patroule inside Orgrimmar, here and there accusing people or taking them with them woudl be something that I see suiteable.

Teldrassil was meant to be occupied. Well then Orgrimmar should be with all consequences for the horde for some time.

Like it has sbeen said. You can dislkike a faction or character, but it is you as the player if you come to the forums and laugh about burning children and how cool it is to burn down a playebale race and how all of them are losers and garbage and so on. Been there. Seen that.

No you don’t just see players asking for it the Horde has DONE it. So no that is not “grey” that is as dark and grim as it can be.
No matter if blizzard themselves says that is not evil… normal moral standards are: it is. Think for yourself you don’t need blizzard to tell you wether or not genocide is evil or not.

Not many in my opinion and that is the core issue that I have tried to point out. Or lets say it this way: Your extremists shift the middle ground pretty far to the extreme end. So even the middle groudn is pretty bad to start with.

And you don’t see THIS as a problem?!
Even if she is pro-alliance the fact that she gets harassed especially from horde players is a proven fact of my claims of that faction being toxic as hell. Just because she is not pro horde is a free ticket to harass her and her personal preference?!

I did, just above for example, you just want to deny and apologize it. Maybe even not wanting to see it that way. Don’t know.

Question is, why is there allways that mindset within horde players that they are allowed to behave like jerks but when alliance players do it equally in response they point their finger like “see you ar eno better haha!!” Totally ignoring that they have opened up that level of behaviour …why is it that horde players assume alliance players allways have to present their other cheek to them aswell?! Why do we have to be the nice guys even when abused all the time?

I’m done with that on my part. You reap what you saw.
Or in other terms: “Why should the alliance players break teh cylce of hatred you started. It is YOUR garbage you clean it up.” To be honest, whenever someone uses this citation of Sylvanas I puke, because this is the same attitude.

Horde players started it but now alliance players are expected to break it and get over it. No you have to attone for it! Literally and in a game sense.
Alliance players are fed up and done being the idiots who are expected to forgive all the abuse …

It is astonishing how deeply ingame story and offgame player behaviour is linked.
You basically tell me a version of “the horde has changed” … well show me! But don’t make me believe you just because you say so and expect me to thus act accordingly.

Tell you what: I also get that if I don’t put in.
That is the sole point of my accusations.

This way I at least get to put in aswell and have you feel the same poison.

Here’s a problem that I see continuing to crop up in these accusations you make.

It’s true that SOME horde players might just not give a crap and partied like it was Burning Man. But if someone’s bemoaning the fact that they ended up being the villains who were wrong and narratively deserve a righteous booty-spanking, then odds are they didn’t like the action that villainized them in the first place. So I think it’s normal for people, like me for example, to give some pushback over punishment even if it makes narrative sense, because this never felt like a win to be compensated for in the first place, especially when the path that led us here hardly made narrative sense in the first place.

The unfortunate part is that there’s absolutely no way to truly balance everything out, because the score looks different depending on the person playing. You think the horde’s +1 to your -1; I feel like both sides are at -1. To me, what you advocate for is a score of -2 to 0. It looks fair to you because the different aspects of the playerbase are tracking different scores.

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I never thought I’d see a rabid night elf fan that’d surpass that of Elesana and Akiyass but congrats Liira, you’ve taken the #1 spot.

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And that is the problem:
The only time the Horde has a porblem with teldrassil is not because “crap genocide is wrong, or its no ok to do that o a playable race or faction etc” … they have a problem with it for soley egoistic reasons because they are seen as villians now.

THAT is their issue.
Not the “damn it destroyed the NEs players fun” but “damn I am the victim i am seen as a villian now”.
That is the whole point why some of the horde fanbois even came op with theories why the burned children were actually to blaim for it and its their own fault … WHAT THE HECK?!

And thus you deny the other faction the consequences because you even dare to victimize yourself here.
Fact is: Your faction did that. No matter if you like it or no, I also didn’t like that my favourit race was genocided. Guess what?! Noone asked me either.
But I want the logical consequences for it then, same way as I have now to deal with the consequences OF SAID GENOCIDE!

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I’m saying things that are unpleasant from a gameplay aspect. I don’t think players should be punished for story aspects they don’t control, the point of a game is to be fun.

Not for me. Again, as an Alliance player I really don’t care for brutalization or harsh post-war punishments. Personally I’d rather see building cooperation.

If you remember how this topic came up, it was ‘Blizzard paints a very clear picture’. They don’t, they’ve said they intentionally try to make it muddy. That’s their design.

I see a problem that Twitter is very toxic at all and any Warcraft writers will be getting hate. I didn’t say it was ok, but that it isn’t a unique issue to the Horde that there are fringe toxic people.

That’s not proof.

I don’t think Horde players should be behaving like jerks. I try to call people out on either end as much as I can tolerate.

Well I’m saying it to you can only control your own actions. Even saying they started it is questionable, but you can only do what you can do. I say the same thing to Horde players that are jerks. Again, it isn’t unique.

Not the same, no. I know this isn’t true. We even see specific parts of this thread where hate against you is from your own actions of being a jerk.

Again, eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind. You’re intentionally focusing on spreading and perpetuating negativity instead of good. So you’re nearly as bad.

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Why is this an issue at all? Why is it wrong for a player to want to enjoy the game they play? Of COURSE I got frustrated over it from a personal or egoistic point of view. I’m playing a pulpy hero fantasy game where you’re meant to self-insert into your character.

I’m not blind to the concept of night elf players being upset that their preferred race got the big G. I sympathize and I don’t try to diminish those feelings. I’m not going to claim to be pristinely unbiased, but I don’t think it’s wrong for me to express my own grievances about what these story beats meant for my own enjoyment as a player.

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Liira, honestly, at this point it feels like you want Horde players to be punished because that one Orc Warrior killed you in world PvP once and told you to “G o Ba c k to r E T a i l”.

Really, it doesn’t seem like you want justice or a good story, you just want Horde players as a collective to not have fun in this game at any cost simply because you didn’t. And it’s somehow their fault. Because you came across three people who taunted you and made you upset.

Never mind the fact that plenty if not most Horde stans who care about the story hated their time in BfA and some (as they said themselves) had to stop playing their characters.

And please, please don’t say “Horde players started it” or “most of Horde players are jerks”. That’s your clearly very biased point of view.

And that’s another thread derailed, BTW, I am not proud of myself for replying to it…

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Have I been in controll to be able to prevent the Horde from doing that?! Was I in controll of that narrative?! I was punished anyway!

I don’t It would be again a “Dreanor is free” with NO consequences. We can talk about building AFTER the punishment. After the consequences that are as harsh as Teldrassil.
Before that every push for “we shoudl stop destroing now after i have destroyed everything and fear to get it back” feels hypocritical.

It was BS from teh start. You have seen sylvanas standing before burned teldrassil. Everyone but the horde players who were in denial knew what happened. Blizzard just did damage controll here. Or even some guys within blizzard are equally in denial.

I mean someone at blizzard had to say yes to a frecking a-hole singing on stage about killing alliance PLAYERS! Someone at blizzard had to allow that!!

I have to make on thing clear: I don’t mind. Really I don’t.
I have recieved so much BS from horde players during BFA start, this is kindergarden. I don’t see myself as a victim, I know that I polarize and provocate certain behaviour. It will make people lose their masks.

Yes. But better than letting you blind me and get away with it. In that case you at least get the same consequences.

Because it is purely egoistic and you deny the other factions to get their fun back just in order to not get in the same situation as they have been.

Stepping on other peoples sandcastle is fun and game, as long as yours don’t get stepped on.

That is teh attitude of Horde players.

Like I said, hord eplayers step onto other peopels sandcastels and then play vicim when they are told they shoudl receive the same treatment.

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This is literally the sentiment I jumped in to try to address. It wasn’t fun for me.

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What people’s sandcastles did “Horde players” step on? Did the Horde players write BfA’s story?

I feel like my sandcastle was firmly stepped on. So much so there’s little of it left.

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Wasn’t the first time, was it?
Theramore? You guys still fist pump it …
Gilneas? Same … screw the worgen players.

You just pretend to have an issue with Teldrassil because this tiem you couldn’t twist it around for it to not being completely unjustifyable evil.

If Nes would have stole you a hamburger before, all would be fine because they deserved it!

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I don’t think you should be punished either. No players should be punished.

I liked that because I wanted literally as much separation from that expansion as well possible. The least amount of connections and content related to it, the better.

I think that’s the case when they continually give interviews out of sync with what we see.

Then why is it a bad thing?

You can’t decry Horde behavior as horrible then say ‘yeah, I know I could improve things, but I don’t really care about it. It doesn’t bother me’. You even said ‘I am fed up’ regarding it.

Either the behavior is toxic, in which case it should be fixed.
Or it isn’t, in which case you’re at their same level and doing the same thing feeding into it.

Better there are less people being blinded. Because you’re being a jerk to people who haven’t even done anything to you.

Like, no joke, it really worries me for anyone to get into the health field when they’re so bought into vindictive behavior like this.

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Doesn’t work here because NEs are dead and Teldrassil destroyed. There is no Draenor is free possible. No matter if the horde players want that because it would mean no consequences for them. But it would also mean 100% of the consequences for NE players.
Since they allready have them!

I know that it will never be fixed. There is no fandom as toxic as the Horde in all video game history. The fix would be: Get rid of it entirely.

Yey of course it would be better if only the Alliance players get blinded and horde players not because alliance players are expected to just not retaliate and present their other cheek.
Sure that is what you guys want, what I accuse you of and what i point out.
And where I say: No not with me. I rather blind you too than being the only one receiving it.

That is my whole issue I have with horde players. They want to preserve theri sand castle but are ok with stomping on others.

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I would be fine if they magically brought back all the dead Night Elves, fixed Teldrassil, and moved on.

It can absolutely be improved. I have experienced it.

Try playing some DotA 2.
Someone got swatted and killed over Call of Duty.

I don’t want anyone blinded, Alliance or Horde!

I want everyone to have their sandcastle.

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Than do it. Start it. Show it.

You literally said that … better the half than all. And since it is a metaphor for one side against the other, you want one side to not retaliate and get blinded but shouldn’t be allowed to give it back.

Well in that case start acknowledting how bad it has been.
And that especiallsy NE players are in a big minus in terms of fun and sandcastles.

I do what I can. Hence why I ask you to do the same.

Better half than all, but even better none than half.

I don’t want either side attacking. I don’t want Alliance to be blinded either.

Inevitably some people will be mean to others. And there’s always going to be people who don’t deserve it getting the flak too. There are undeserving Alliance and Horde players. Ideally the least amount of people being mean to each other is a win.

You keep mistakenly thinking I’m not holding Horde players to the same standard when I am. But I’m talking to you right now.

Some Night Elf players are clearly unhappy. I’ve never denied it.

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And I wouldn’t because it’s would completely remove the stakes this game has. And if such precedence would happen then every other player faction would demand the same treatment.

Nelves should receive compensation, some new home and get a story that makes them grow as a society past that tragic event. But mass rezz entire population is awful idea.

I’m pretty sure draenei would want to rezz their people too, and Amani and Drakkari trolls too, And belves too… and I can continue to count examples.
But if a bad stuff happened why not to use it in narrative to introduce a new plot?

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And most importandly not being allowed to give teh Horde any form of consequence of course.

Here we are again.

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I didn’t say that. I’m not against Alliance fighting Horde, and I find nelves to be cool enemies to fight against.
I see no problem with them starting attacks in next expansion.

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We literally die constantly and come back. I just can’t say I care anymore.

I mean, Gnomes haven’t gotten their home back for the entire life of the game. Orcs more or less lost their planet. Draenei lost their planet and were butchered. Worgen lost their nation. Humans lost like five nations overall. High/Blood/Void Elves lost 90% of their population and a lot of their homeland.

Yet we don’t see the same level of distress from their players as Night Elf players. I don’t think the slippery slope is a huge issue here.

I mean, I agree. But I also get tired of hearing the complaining. I’m willing to compromise.