What on Earth is with you people?

they cant.

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We are playing with the 1.12 talents, so we already have changes.

Unless we start on 1.1. Vanilla Fresh will always be an altered game, that is a fact. Now that we are stuck with 1.12 we can at least make this miserable state of Vanilla a bit better by adding QoL features such as Dual spec or Instant mail.

For Pally to become a DPS class, the entire tree would need a change, at this point who cares if it would happen, after all other tree´s saw similar adjustments like Warrior, Shadowpriest or Druids.

We may never know why the original Devs felt ret pally is not a thing, but they altered all other classes so much, that when 1.12 hit classic was only a shadow of it´s former glory.

Well yeah. Just kinda like a fire mage isn’t a frost mage but is still dps

You prolly should try sod

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Vanilla isn’t for you.

We do know actually. They designed paladins to do dps around auto attack. They though this would free them up to heal while dpsing and also while tanking. prior to their talent revamp they thought the problem with paladin was only the talents and not their design philosophy. They also had nerfed the reckoning bomb after that fiasco so they were already reluctant to give them something else and by the time they realized they left pld in a bad spot dps and tank wise, they were already working on TBC and put the needed changes there. They’ve admitted to this in the past. The only reason paladin is poorly designed is because it was the biggest fumble class-wise of vanilla.

Just so everyone’s on the same page. if TBC never happened, paladin would’ve been adjusted during vanilla

1.12 is still vanilla
What an inane argument
I bet you think youre really clever for coming up with this
“Vanilla didnt launch with 1.12 in 2004 so its okay to rework classes now!!”
Pure idiocy

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You can’t say that for sure. Also Paladins were changed from their more active style to autoattacking with seals at the last moment (after beta) because of crippling mana issues, as well as being too powerful compared to other classes.

Still hilarious how retail tourists think classes should be balanced around numbers on a third party website

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a mix of entitlement and brain rot

No! I did not read the entire 150 posts!

I am way too kewl for that.

JUSTICE FOR RET PALADINS!

SWING IT BROTHERS AND SISTERS!

AND FOR THAT YOU DONT GET A LIKE!

its a complete sentence mate

/edit oh dear, a double post

I don’t have to. Blizz devs have openly admitted what happened.

gonna need a source on that “if TBC never happened, paladin would’ve been adjusted during vanilla”

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The pally in our raid, did offtank at MC or BWL, AQ. But not having a taunt was you know ^^ We used to let Warlocks tank and the pally was the healer and backup.

I really enjoyed that state of Vanilla, we all had to work together.

But ofc. those who insult me in this thread, never played Vanilla, so for them 1.12 is Vanilla :woman_facepalming: :joy:

I agree with you, that the entire talent revamp leading to 1.12. was in preperation for TBC, which is why us veterans call 1.12 the pre TBC state of WOW.

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lol literally nobody calls it that. you’re delusional

U can tank with blessing spam. If u truly want it, make your own path ( I dpsed and leveled to 60 as a balance druid.) if you can’t then back to retail. :man_shrugging:

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Homogenization will ruin what makes classic what it is but people love to say that they want specific things changed to meet their needs not realizing that this completely ruins the vanilla feel. Why play a priest for example? Because it is the best raid healer, has unique quirks like Mind Control and has a shadow spec that while not powerful in raid, is very powerful in pvp. Why play a paladin for example? Because it’s in the unique position where it’s technically a melee class with the ability to heal, has some of the strongest buffs in the game that absolutely make alliance feel extremely good, is insane in group pvp ect. Why play a warlock for example? The uniqueness of summoning, raid utility and some banger pvp options.

See what I’m getting at here? Every class in this game has something special about it, making paladins Warrior #2 does a disservice to the game. I will never expect to be able to play shadow effectively in raids because I understand that it’s good for the game to not be homogenized. This is an MMO, classes are allowed to have strengths and weaknesses because they eliminate those weaknesses when they group up with each other.

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This is all spot on, but you’re coming from a perspective that is largely ignored by people who complain about Vanilla “balance”. They don’t view the game like the rest of us, where there is more to it than just raiding at level 60 and uploading parses to a 3rd party website. Remember the discourse around SoD in each phase when it came to balance was literally just linking screenshots of WoWlogs and complaining that whatever class they were playing is lower than the others.
I suspect because they play on PvE servers or don’t engage in PvP altogether in battlegrounds. When you look at everything a Druid can do for example, the flexibility and just sheer tools they have for every situation in world PvP, it would be hilariously busted if they were doing Warrior tier DPS and everyone would instantly drop Warrior as a class, especially if they were also better tanks.
Again, I stressed the importance of class interdependence earlier but thank you for bringing it up again.

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Its a pretty terrible experience though.

You can tank with a fast weapon, judging mana, and forcing a kill order.

Though getting sufficient gear to make it matchable to the wild dps variations, no taunt, sudden crits and aoe spam… Well. You really need to be overgeared for the content, and the dps undergeared.

Pally, like druid are exemplars as to why its poo poo design.

I demand they halve the cost of riding skills!!
grr winge moan

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